The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
The question is whether or not a person with reinforcements can force an opponent with TI to use their TI before they use reinforcements.
Couldn't the question be reversed? In that we are now forcing a player with Reinforcements to use them before a player with TI. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for TI copying Reinforcements, I'm just looking for a solid linear reasoning. Maybe where it's not needed. I could see this getting really muddled with any future during set-up abilities though.
Feel free to be a short fuse as often as you like, I'm a fan of the discussions - but you probably know that already
Here's my answer to this particular point. In a sense, yes you are. But not in the way that it seems. Let's use my override example again. Go back to the forgetting to resolve an existing override example. When this happens, the player with the override, can go back and add a new one, the opposing player cannot use "forgetting" to his advantage. I believe the same here. As in override, they occur at the same time, therefore a player has the option to choose the reinforcement CE precisely because of the timing. Now, when you add in door resolution, the "acting player" in this case the player whose turn it is (although the rules could easily have said, the player who is using the ability) gets to choose the order. In a case of TI vs Reinforcements, I can see the argument about who is the acting player. But if we expand it, to a player with TI and reinforcements vs Reinforcements, it becomes clear that the choice should be in the player with access to multiple things. How about a case with both players having both things? Again, the players could disagree as to the order, but the question is about which order best fulfills the requirements of the rules as written. In this case as well as the override/door resolution the official step is not over until all abilities that occur in that step are finished, therefore, the guy has the right to choose it if he wants. Perhaps my using of "acting player" has added more to the confusion than was necessary. So let me try to explain my position in a different way.
First, you could go the route of allowing either or both players to even change their responses based on the opponent's choices, but I think we all agree that this would lead to abuse and at least annoyance. Therefore the easier solution is to finish reinforcements before TI, which covers the rights of the TI player, and the rights of the Reinforcement player fully and listing the requirements of each should clarify it.
1. Reinforcements - you are allowed to see your opponent's entire squad, other than reinforcements before choosing, and must do so before rolling for map. You do get to know what your opponent's map is however, just not which one will be chosen. The rule has long been in place that when both players have this same ability, the choice is made in secret and revealed in secret. Before TI, there were no other abilities that occurred at this time, so it's clear exactly what the player is allowed to know or not know for this step. Doing TI before it, would change the power of reinforcements, and what you would potentially know. Doing TI after, would not change a thing about it.
2. TI - you are allowed to know your opponent's entire squad before hand, and choose from any CE they have in the squad. Does this include reinforcement CEs? If we intended it not to work this way, we would have changed the timing of TI to occur before reinforcements. As it is, we did not - whether intended or not, I cannot justify that denying the reinforcement CE would fulfill fully what TI allows. Doing TI first, puts a restriction on TI, that is not written anywhere in the rules for it. Doing it after, fully satisfies the ability as written.
I understand some people might want to restrict TI, but that isn't justified by the rules. In my estimation, doing it in this order via convenience fully satisfies the requirements of both abilities, and the reverse in fact does not. Therefore, it's pretty easy for me to say that the rules allow or require it done in this order, rather than the reverse.