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 Post subject: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:53 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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So it looks like my local meta is really solid on Momentous Yodabuck, so I really need to protect my commnaders. Thinking along this line, I came up with this interaction which I believe to be correct. However, since I see it raising questions, it's always good to have my rulings seconded before hand.

In a republic squad, it should be possible to lock(override) all of my weaker range six commanders in a room. With mas and a single well placed mouse droid on the table, I should be able to protect my Commanders from a deep yodabuck gallop and have the unlimited range counted from the Mouse.

To make this a question....Correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:13 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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Just to clarify, you're saying Mas is locked in the room with your commanders, and only the mouse is outside the room (probably with the rest of the squad)? And then your asking if the the CEs will be boardwide via the MD?

If that is your question, then I do not believe the CEs will be boardwide. The reason, is that Booming Voice itself is a Special Ability and not a Commander Effect, therefore, the effects of Booming Voice will not be utilized by Relay Orders.

Mas will provide unlimited range to the commander effects only within the room he and the commanders are locked in. The mouse droid will provide all of the commander effects only within range 6 of itself, and Mas's Booming Voice will be a virtually wasted SA. If a door is opened, then his Booming Voice will go boardwide (assuming no obstruction via closed doors else where).

So just to reiterate in a more clear fashion. If Booming Voice was a commander effect, then it might be possible for Booming Voice to be boardwide from a Mouse Droid's Relay Orders, but Booming Voice is a special ability and therefore, relay orders will have nothing to do with booming voice once it is locked in a room, and the commander effect range will be limited to being within 6 of the MD as long as Mas is locked in a room.

Someone else can confirm what I just said, but I am pretty sure it is correct. Is Jason Tanner on the Boads this evening?


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:44 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I think it should work. Relay Orders allows you to be able to count CEs from the Mouse Droid, and since CEs have no limit thanks to Booming Voice then as long as you can count to the Mouse Droid then you are able to benefit from the CE.


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:52 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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It actually does not work. The reason is, that Booming Voice does not affect mouse droid's range, as they do not ever technically have a Commander Effect. You must still count range from the commander him/herself.

Although, you can have the commander locked in a room, and count range 6 from the mouse. I've done this to protect a commander several times before.

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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:30 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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billiv15 wrote:
It actually does not work. The reason is, that Booming Voice does not affect mouse droid's range, as they do not ever technically have a Commander Effect. You must still count range from the commander him/herself.

Although, you can have the commander locked in a room, and count range 6 from the mouse. I've done this to protect a commander several times before.


Hang on just a second. Are you sure? Mas doesn't affect the Mouse's range, but it does affect the original Commander's range, making it unlimited. As long as you count squares to the target, the CE works. Relay Orders allows you to count distance from the Mouse instead of the original commander. Where does it say that the CE reverts back to the original range? Whether it's a range of 2 squares, 6, or infinite, you should be able to count them from the Mouse, or am I missing something?


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:38 am 
Warmaster
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Draconarius wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
It actually does not work. The reason is, that Booming Voice does not affect mouse droid's range, as they do not ever technically have a Commander Effect. You must still count range from the commander him/herself.

Although, you can have the commander locked in a room, and count range 6 from the mouse. I've done this to protect a commander several times before.


Hang on just a second. Are you sure? Mas doesn't affect the Mouse's range, but it does affect the original Commander's range, making it unlimited. As long as you count squares to the target, the CE works. Relay Orders allows you to count distance from the Mouse instead of the original commander. Where does it say that the CE reverts back to the original range? Whether it's a range of 2 squares, 6, or infinite, you should be able to count them from the Mouse, or am I missing something?


You're missing the point. Booming Voice is a Special Ability, not a Commander Effect, so the Mouse Droid's Relay Orders has no effect on it. Thus, Mas stuck in a room is a wasted Mas.


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:51 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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That' only half right. Relay Orders is a special ability, so Booming Voice cannot extend the count of CEs from the mouse; however, Mas locked in a room is not a wasted Mas, as it is the Commander who needs to be counted to, not Mas. Booming Voice does not need to be counted back to the Commander for its effects to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:00 am 
Big Bad Brad
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See my take on it was that Booming Voice and Relay Orders never interact in the first place. I see it in this order:

Commander with Range 6 CE

Mas with Booming Voice

Commanders now Have Unlimited Range, which still must be counted.

Lock them in a room, Ce only extends inside room (as you can't count range beyond that)

Drop a mouse Droid outside the room, Commanders can now count range (unlimited) via relay orders.

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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:30 am 
Master of the Order
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It works.
Mas can be anywhere.
The mouse does not have to count range to the commander.
CE receivers need only to count range either to the commander, or the mouse, and that range is unlimited in either case due to Booming Voice. Commanders can be locked away, if there is a Mouse with range to the receiver.

What Booming Voice does - makes Allied CEs (with range 6) "unlimited" range (but still ranged)
What Relay Orders does - allows you to count from the Mouse in addition to the commander

It seems more complicated than it really is...


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:18 am 
Sith Apprentice
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I can see why it is so confusing. The big issue here is whether Booming Voice affects only the CEs coming from the commanders themselves, or any source of commander effect. Booming Voice only affects the Commander, not every source of CE, so Relay Orders does not gain unlimited range.

FAQ:
Quote:
Relay Orders
Q: Is a character with Relay Orders affected by Disruptive?

A: No. Disruptive only affects the commander or the character receiving the effect. Note that if the commander is in range of Disruptive, his commander effect is completely shut down even for a character within range of Relay Orders unaffected by Disruptive.


This is the best FAQ that illistrates exactly how Relay Orders work. As you can see in the above FAQ, relay orders is not affected by special abilities that affect CEs. Just as Disruptive does not disrupt CEs coming from a mouse droid, Booming Voice does not make the range of Relay Orders become rangeless, nor does it make the CEs coming from Relay Order become range less. Booming Voice only affects the direct source of the CEs via the actual Commander.

Great question!


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:31 am 
Sith Apprentice
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swinefeld wrote:

What Booming Voice does - makes Allied CEs (with range 6) "unlimited" range (but still ranged)


This is not entirely true. Booming Voice does not make Allied CEs unlimited range.

IT DOES: Give allies WITH COMMANDER EFFECTS unlimited range. MDs do not have CE, they just have Relay Orders.

According to the glossary:
Quote:
Booming Voice: If this character is in your squad,any allies with commander effects normally limited to 6 squares have the range limit removed.


Notice it says allies WITH commander effects, and not allies with commander effects coming from them (ie: Relay Orders). The mouse droids do not actually have commander effects. Simply stated, they merely have a special ability that allows you to count CEs from them. Once again, that is why Booming Voice does not affect the range of the commander effects coming from mouse droids.


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:06 am 
Master of the Order
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Copied directly from the official FAQ:

Quote:
Booming Voice

Q: Mas Amedda's Booming Voice says it gives "unlimited range" to commander effects. Does that mean
it applies to all eligible allies?

A: No. "Unlimited range" means there is no specific range limit, but you still must be able to count range
to that ally for the commander effect to apply. For example, if the commander is isolated in a room with
all of its doors closed, it is impossible to count range to any character outside that room. Thus,
the commander effect would not apply to any character outside.


OK, so if the commander is locked in a room, a character outside the room can't count range to the commander.

How does the Mouse Droid's Relay Orders affect this?

It allows you to count range from the MD, as well as the commander. Not range 6, as Booming removed that range limit. The mouse does not have to count range to the commander in order for Relay Orders to work. Relay is a special ability, just as Booming is. It just works.

I will gladly insert foot in mouth upon anyone citing/linking to an official source/ruling that directly contradicts my interpretation :mrgreen:

Side note: the earlier example about interaction with Disruptive has no bearing on this question :)


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:32 am 
Sith Apprentice
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http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... #331133194
here is a link to a thread on WOTC on this topic. Hope it helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:39 am 
Big Bad Brad
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Dark_Jedi_21 wrote:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19463698/booming_voice_relay_orders?post_id=331133194#331133194
here is a link to a thread on WOTC on this topic. Hope it helps.



I'd say that is a clear seconding of my original thought.

Thanks Jason

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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:29 pm 
Master of the Order
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Dark_Jedi_21 wrote:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19463698/booming_voice_relay_orders?post_id=331133194#331133194
here is a link to a thread on WOTC on this topic. Hope it helps.



I'd say that is a clear seconding of my original thought.

Thanks Jason


Would it have been clearer if I had just said "yes, you are correct"? :lol:


ps - thanks Jason. I had read that, but was hoping to find some blue _NN_ text or something in the FAQ...


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 Post subject: Re: Booming Voic + Relay Orders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:21 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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swinefeld wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Dark_Jedi_21 wrote:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19463698/booming_voice_relay_orders?post_id=331133194#331133194
here is a link to a thread on WOTC on this topic. Hope it helps.



I'd say that is a clear seconding of my original thought.

Thanks Jason


Would it have been clearer if I had just said "yes, you are correct"? :lol:


ps - thanks Jason. I had read that, but was hoping to find some blue _NN_ text or something in the FAQ...



Yeah I was hoping to see Nickname confirm it but I think the fact that he didn't contradict the thread says enough.

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