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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:49 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Well, despite what appears to be a few things off, I have to say I am really impressed. Good job. I am really excited to see how the meta shakes up with all the new stuff.

Makashi Mastery is still good, considering it is Parry plus immunity to a few more Styles that are getting a bit more use. Dooku is still really good anti-melee piece.

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:21 pm 
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I like these rules alot. Go Dean for the update (just too bad we didn't have this at GenCon).

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:47 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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So I have updated the main page downloads.

You can download the floor rules under the download tab under DCI Resources.

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:08 pm 
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These new changes look great. I like the map list change and the adjustment to Rigid. WIth the map change it will still allow for freedom on many maps for the huges that rarely saw play often due to map, but now can, (still prolly wont, after all most huges suck). I also like the way that there is freedom from time to time to explore the other map options. And I really like the gambit change.

The return of Gowk was a bit of a suprise, but with the change to SSM for DCI play, I think it'll be fine. Gowk and Flobi can again be killed by melee fig's. And there are plenty of Jedi Haten melee available, of course it is still a catch 22, Gowk or his support, take your pick? But at least melee can hit Gowk now.

I see a lot more talk of the maps here, it's a great system. I think it will work really well for TO's who want to try and sell map packs since those maps are now legal. I can also tell a new player hsi gowk is usable at a tourny now. Of course he'll be cheesed that he just got a Flobi to replace it. Oh well...

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:32 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I'm intrigued by the new map list. So Open are maps that you can play for anything. Standard are maps that are recommended. It doesn't mentioned what Restricted is for, but I'm guessing since there are 6 maps that's the whole "these are the only maps played at GenCon" thingy that was talked about earlier.


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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:53 pm 
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jedispyder wrote:
I'm intrigued by the new map list. So Open are maps that you can play for anything. Standard are maps that are recommended. It doesn't mentioned what Restricted is for, but I'm guessing since there are 6 maps that's the whole "these are the only maps played at GenCon" thingy that was talked about earlier.


Correct. Although you can use any of the three for a DCI tournament at any time. It's completely up to the TO as to which they want to use for a given event.

Regionals and Gencon will likely use "restricted".

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:55 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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Ok, thanks for the clarifications.


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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:42 am 
Master of the Order
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Like the new map list. Happy to see the 3 categories.

GOWK is back, and the change makes sense for the currant meta. Guess we'll see alot of him again.

The rigid rule made me chuckle. Why not? So basically rigid no longer exists.

Here's something:

The new scoring seems to have a redundant step. #3.

1. Match Win Points – The player with the most match points.

2. Match Win Percentage – The player with the highest match winning percentage.

3. Completed Victories – The player with highest number completed victories during the tournament (games in which 3 match points were achieved)

4. Head to Head Matchups – The player who has won any head to head matchups would be ahead of the loser in a head to head matchup.

5. Opponents Match Win Percentage – The player with the highest opponent match winning percentage.


How could you ever has a situation where people are tied in 1 and 2, but not #3?

Example:
3+3+3+2+2+2+0 (15 points, 6-1 record) 2nd place
3+2+2+2+2+2+2 (15 points, 7-0 record) 1st place
3+3+3+3+3+0+0 (15 points, 5-2 record) 3rd place

All three are tied in number 1, but easily ranked by # 2 (# 3 does not come into play)

Example 2:
3+3+3+3+3+0+0 (15 points, 5-2 record) 1st place
3+3+3+3+2+0+0 (14 points, 5-2 record) 2nd place
3+3+3+2+2+0+0 (13 points, 5-2 record) 3rd place

All three are tied in #2 (record), but that doesn't matter since they were already ranked due to #1.


So my question is this:
What is the magical scenario where tie-breaker number 3 will ever come into play?


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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:04 am 
The One True Sith Lord
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it was originally written if 1 and 2 do not break the tie IE they are equal then number of complete game victories are determined next.

The chances of this actually being used of tiebreaker are slim and none because it would have to be a very large tourney but it still beats last name begins with!

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:38 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
Correct. Although you can use any of the three for a DCI tournament at any time. It's completely up to the TO as to which they want to use for a given event.

Regionals and Gencon will likely use "restricted".


And I should clarify here that the restricted list obviously is something of an experiment. It's here now because maybe it will suck, and if we found out it sucked at Gencon that would be way too late.

Now Jim has several months to gauge feedback about how the metagame is shaping up on each map list and he'll make the final decision about whether the standard list, restricted list, (or something else entirely) is the right call for any major tourneys.

All assuming WotC does the smart thing and renews Jim's contract for another year. Cooperating on getting this floor rules update out there can only be thought of as a good sign in that regard...

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:00 am 
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Very pleased on the update - Great job Dean! I know the last update I was critical on the maps, but I really like the idea of a tiered system as a means of controlling them. I do hope though that for Gencon (or at least the championships) the idea of using a specially designed 'mystery' map will still be considered. With the restricted map list, the main consideration for the 'mystery map' is more of a way to promote more players to turn out for the event. Show up for the Championships and you can at least walk-away with a new, limited release map (and hopefully hours of fun barring any Magic-induced fire alarms...).


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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:05 am 
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These floor rule changes are obviously going to change the meta more than a little bit.

I should be working right now, but I'm too excited about building new squads. :)

We should have another Vassal Tournament at some point soon, as a good and fun way to explore the new meta.

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:36 am 
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I talked to Engineer about the changes last night. GOWK is back, and remains nigh-invulnerable to shooters - does that mean that shooter-only squads (like speeder squads) are finished? If you're building for a tournament and you know you'll face at least one GOWK squad, does that force you to include a big chunk of melee in your build, e.g. maybe an interference style squad, or suffer an auto-loss?

Does this change make pseudo-melee characters like Mara Jade Jedi, Aurra JH, and WFF's less competitive compared to true melee?

And if melee gets a boost, does Evade become less dominant?

Is GOWK going to reemerge as a lead meta-shaping figure at all?


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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:40 am 
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barzillai wrote:
I talked to Engineer about the changes last night. GOWK is back, and remains nigh-invulnerable to shooters - does that mean that shooter-only squads (like speeder squads) are finished? If you're building for a tournament and you know you'll face at least one GOWK squad, does that force you to include a big chunk of melee in your build, e.g. maybe an interference style squad, or suffer an auto-loss?


Nah....TimmerB showed this at the Chicago Regionals last year. Quite a few people were still playing SS squads and coming out OK against GOWK builds. Granted, you had to play VERY defensively to do that, and mostly just go after GOWK's support, but that's how it goes sometimes.

As for the other parts of your post....I think the same thing will happen with things like Mara Jedi, Aurra JH, WFFs, etc. Those types of squads will still do OK, they'll just have to focus on GOWK's support first.

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:18 pm 
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dnemiller wrote:
it was originally written if 1 and 2 do not break the tie IE they are equal then number of complete game victories are determined next.

The chances of this actually being used of tiebreaker are slim and none because it would have to be a very large tourney but it still beats last name begins with!


My point is I think it is mathematically impossible for tie-breaker #3 to ever matter, not just unlikely.

Don't get me wrong - the whole thing is MUCH better than "last name begins with" or "order you registered".

So basically you have 1, 2, (3 will already be covered by the two of these combined), then you go straight to 4, and in the unlikely event of still tied, go to 5.


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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:21 pm 
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LoboStele wrote:
barzillai wrote:
I talked to Engineer about the changes last night. GOWK is back, and remains nigh-invulnerable to shooters - does that mean that shooter-only squads (like speeder squads) are finished? If you're building for a tournament and you know you'll face at least one GOWK squad, does that force you to include a big chunk of melee in your build, e.g. maybe an interference style squad, or suffer an auto-loss?


Nah....TimmerB showed this at the Chicago Regionals last year. Quite a few people were still playing SS squads and coming out OK against GOWK builds. Granted, you had to play VERY defensively to do that, and mostly just go after GOWK's support, but that's how it goes sometimes.

As for the other parts of your post....I think the same thing will happen with things like Mara Jedi, Aurra JH, WFFs, etc. Those types of squads will still do OK, they'll just have to focus on GOWK's support first.


Yeah - it was interesting. You had to play aggressive against support, and defensive vs GOWK (just avoid GOWK until the end usually). Then wear him down. I fear lots of 2 point victories with this strategy - so I think people will reconsider all non-melee just for that reason.


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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:31 pm 
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there are other variables that have changed also. Maps are more restrictive and gambit is only 5 pointers now.

The speeders phenomenal speed will always be an advantage to play it but your probably looking at something other than the Han Cannon to support it or the speeder goes and you find something else to support the speeder.

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:41 pm 
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I still like the builds where you use Shaak Ti, JM instead of Han Scoundrel. Virtually the same build, just using a Melee Cunning piece instead of the range Cunning piece. That would give you a piece that can help deal with GOWK as well (Cunning + Riposte + Block + Princess Leia is a nice combo there).

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:50 pm 
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the loss of accurate shot is pretty huge though.

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 Post subject: Re: New DCI Floor rules update 1/26/10
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:57 pm 
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True.

I guess maybe we need to start a separate thread to discuss the Meta impact due to the new set/floor rules. :D

EDIT: Started a new thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8290

Let's keep this thread set aside for discussion of the Floor Rules themselves. Questions, comments, concerns, etc. Take talk of GOWK and Meta shifts and such to the other thread. Thanks! :)

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