Gurneywars wrote:
shooting pieces, double twin shooting pieces it s all the same except the double twin is worst.
Hmm I think several of the double twinners can get accurate shot.
I'm just tired of what is becoming an all too popular and abused rant, "It's all the fault of the double twin attacker Rex, Dash and now Cad." I mean seriously, it's almost as if double twin attackers are now responsible for starting WWII....
It's nothing against you personally Matt (and I hate making qualifiers like that but it's a necessity now a days on the forums), but I seriously question your logic here. I think in this case, you like a lot of people, perhaps most, have gotten onto the "double twin is Satan" train and can't see the forest for the trees any longer. Perhaps I am overstating, but there is a major problem here with this consensus that seems to be forming. If I were making a list of Vong issues, I'm not even sure the double twin attackers would even make the list.
Jonny laid out some of the issues. The double twinners can barely hit the Vong, they lack accurate shot and gaining it as you suggested is pretty darn expensive. Rex and Dash can't get it period. Cad can at a cost of 40pts more. So a 94 pt Cad... That's hardly a worthwhile concern for the game and for the Vong. Further, none of those three can even hit the Vong on their way in anyways. Further, Vong often employ Nom to protect a key piece like the shaper, and done right, you aren't going to get to kill it without losing more points in the process. Other double twinners like Echani are hardly burning up the meta, access to Veers or not. Finally, we turn to Mandos. Mandos do well enough against Vong, and can gain accurate shot on their scouts. Problem is, they still have to be able to see them, have to out activate, and last I checked, Mandos weren't burning up the meta either.
As to Vong's real issues, well there are a couple that still affect the meta. Luke's Snowspeeder. It's high speed and DR makes it a very very tough battle. As long as the snowspeeder is in the meta, Vong will struggle. Open maps - they generally crush all but very specific Vong builds. Some that is changing. Lack of strong shooters with Vong synergy. Cad Bane is probably best used as a Vong piece. This is partially because the Vong need another shooter with synergy for the faction, in particular with Nom, but also because the Vong already have some of the best interference figures in the game.
Here's a squad:
--Bane's Bombs--
54 Cad Bane
34 Nom Anor
21 Yuuzhan Vong Shaper
40 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter x2
19 Yomin Carr
8 R7 Astromech Droid
12 Advance Scout x2
6 Mouse Droid x2
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 13 activations)
This is what I am talking about when I speak of Vong. I don't need to charge the field with my JHs, so open maps aren't as big of an issue. I don't need to get much farther than in an around gambit generally. The JHs are interference pieces done right, with 3 spit poison figures behind them, and poison themselves. The shaper can be OMed, or a JH if you want. Then can start near Nom early, and move up to the JHs when they engage. You don't need to or want to overextend. You want to protect Cad and Nom with the JHs. It's a pretty darn brutal squad, and honestly, I have 0 fear of double twin attackers being an issue at all for this. Swapping is a much bigger threat in general, and I find that to be true for Vong most of the time anyways.
As to the question of the thread, no, I don't think it solves the issue with SSM. There is no reason to nerf the others simply to deal with the one problematic one. I recommended months ago that SSM simply become Lightsaber Defense, which would have done the same thing to GOWK that this change suggests, only cost him a fp to begin with. And it wasn't meant with any success. But never did I argue that this change would be of great benefit to the Vong. The Vong already torch GOWK quite well as is. There issues are generally with movement breakers, but spit poison helps, so does Cad. In fact, I've argued that the Vong are tier 1 at 200 right now.