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 Post subject: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:28 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Rob answered in controversial fashion, many people's concern for Soresu Style Mastery in the Q&A at Wizos.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=18107351


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:50 am 
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Fool wrote:
Master_Jorth wrote:
Rob answered in controversial fashion, many people's concern for Soresu Style Mastery in the Q&A at Wizos.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=18107351


Wow.

I'm happy for this as I'd been feeling that it was an interesting result.

I'm not sure how i feel about it right now. I guess I'll run GOWK tonight (with the new (or old, i guess) Soresu Style Mastery) and find out!


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:00 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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So Rob told NN the wrong thing? Makes.No.Friggin.Sense!


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:09 pm 
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Wait wait....what? Could somebody copy Rob's post? Did he say it DOES work on everything? So then why does the glossary say otherwise? Craziness. Of course, it will just mean his FPs will run out even faster. But it does make him an absolute beast of a piece now. I've honestly only run him 1 time since I got him, because he just gets slaughtered by non-melee opponents. If Rob really does change it so that it works on everything, then he'd definitely be worth his 55 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Guys, considering this is counter to Nickname's Final Word thread which also came directly from Rob, let's hold off until Jason pipes in with his word on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Sure, billiv15...but, for clarification here is the actual post-

Quote:

•Did Rob really intend to make Soresu Style Mastery just a weakened form of Parry?

[COLOR="Blue"]Rob:[/COLOR] No

•Rob, may we please have a final answer on Soresu Style Mastery on General Obi-Wan Kenobi from Clone Wars? As I'm sure you know by now, there is dispute about whether his card text is correct (in omitting the word melee) with a misprint (including the word melee) in the glossary. Some in the community point out that as things are right now, Soresu Style Mastery is just another name for parry and would like it to do something different to justify a different name. Either way a ruling goes, can you (if you remember back to the development cycle for Clone Wars) enlighten us about why it works the way it does? +++++++++++

[COLOR="blue"]Rob:[/COLOR] The glossary is wrong. Soresu Style Mastery works on all attacks.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Master_Jorth wrote:
Sure, billiv15...but, for clarification here is the actual post-

Quote:

•Did Rob really intend to make Soresu Style Mastery just a weakened form of Parry?

[COLOR="Blue"]Rob:[/COLOR] No

•Rob, may we please have a final answer on Soresu Style Mastery on General Obi-Wan Kenobi from Clone Wars? As I'm sure you know by now, there is dispute about whether his card text is correct (in omitting the word melee) with a misprint (including the word melee) in the glossary. Some in the community point out that as things are right now, Soresu Style Mastery is just another name for parry and would like it to do something different to justify a different name. Either way a ruling goes, can you (if you remember back to the development cycle for Clone Wars) enlighten us about why it works the way it does? +++++++++++

[COLOR="blue"]Rob:[/COLOR] The glossary is wrong. Soresu Style Mastery works on all attacks.


Yes I am aware, but it's also completely an unofficial source unless Nickname confirms it on the rules forum. It could easily have been a misstatement by Rob, so I'm just saying wait and see before you go hog wild spreading it around.

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Master_Jorth wrote:
Sure, billiv15...but, for clarification here is the actual post-

Quote:

•Did Rob really intend to make Soresu Style Mastery just a weakened form of Parry?

[COLOR="Blue"]Rob:[/COLOR] No

•Rob, may we please have a final answer on Soresu Style Mastery on General Obi-Wan Kenobi from Clone Wars? As I'm sure you know by now, there is dispute about whether his card text is correct (in omitting the word melee) with a misprint (including the word melee) in the glossary. Some in the community point out that as things are right now, Soresu Style Mastery is just another name for parry and would like it to do something different to justify a different name. Either way a ruling goes, can you (if you remember back to the development cycle for Clone Wars) enlighten us about why it works the way it does? +++++++++++

[COLOR="blue"]Rob:[/COLOR] The glossary is wrong. Soresu Style Mastery works on all attacks.


Yes I am aware, but it's also completely an unofficial source unless Nickname confirms it on the rules forum. It could easily have been a misstatement by Rob, so I'm just saying wait and see before you go hog wild spreading it around.

Too Late.... :lol:

Now, i'm sure you know better than I do, but why wouldn't anything Rob says be 'official'? He didn't sound like he was unsure of it at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:54 pm 
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Master_Jorth wrote:
Now, i'm sure you know better than I do, but why wouldn't anything Rob says be 'official'? He didn't sound like he was unsure of it at all.


Official Rules Sources for DCI play

Glossary
Errata
FAQ

That's it from a very strict legal definition. However, you can basically treat Nickname's blue responses on the rules forum as official as well because those are what typically make the FAQ or are simple interpretations of the existing sources. Also, the mini-FAQs are not technically official until they are moved to the official FAQ - but again, treat them as official since they are basically the questions that will be added to the official FAQ usually a month or so after a release.

So basically, Rob could say all attacks are now +0 and it means nothing.

Not saying it won't turn out to be correct, just saying, its not official in any way yet :)

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:34 pm 
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You gotta know Rob to understand this one.

Only he and NN can speak to their conversation, but I know Rob made an incorrect ruling when he judged a SWM event at GenCon 06, and I had to show him the AT-AT scenario rulebook to correct him on something he questioned during the event he played in that year. He shrugged and laughed when I proved him wrong.

These were the rules HE wrote and he forgot lol.

But that said, I don't think he would type out a very clear sentence like that without some thought and determined decision on the matter. Even Nickname says the timing of the answer makes it hard to know which one came first.

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:57 pm 
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But the question is, for what is the best thing for the game, is it the correct ruling?

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure either way. GOWK is already a royal pain in the rump to kill, even with non-Melee pieces, because he has decent defense, and typically has good support to harass whatever is attacking him. Mara Jade Jedi or Han Scoundrel were your best bets for taking him out quickly, but that may not be the case anymore.

Of course, perhaps this is another of Rob's ways of saying that hears the people asking for more counters to the shooter-heavy game as it is right now.

I know if this change really does take place, I'll certainly use GOWK in more of my squads. Currently, I've always used Cmdr Gree instead to get the +4 attack, because I didn't feel the need to spend another 35 points just to get the +4 to Defense as well. GOWK was never a good enough piece on his own for me to justify his extra cost. For 35 points I'd rather run Qui-Gon JM or a JWM. But if SSM does really end up working against both melee AND non-melee...now we're starting to sound worth those extra points instead. He still lacks a LOT in the damage output, IMO. But it ends up putting him somewhat on par with Luke & Yoda. A piece with only mediocre damage output, but a lot of other uses instead. And it takes a lot less effort to utilize GOWK's CE than Gree's. This will definitely make things interesting. General Rieekan, here comes GOWK. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:43 pm 
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An update and some clarity from Rob

WOTC Rob wrote:
Jason Tanner is the man. I appreciate all the small ways he has contributed to making Star Wars Miniatures a better game. Yes, he gave you a ruling a couple of weeks ago that came straight from an email he received from me. That was completely my fault, I flubbed it and failed to realize the glossary was erroneous. I thought I was answering a question on rules precedence. I didn't realize the glossary itself was in error.

Rob


And then Nick Name

Nick Name wrote:
OK. So Rob has spilled the beans in the Q&A thread.

Soresu Style Mastery will recieve errata to the glossary entry that brings it into line with the wording on the card.

Until that time, the standard method of interpreting the rules remains in effect and the glossary "wins".

The question of the hour from players will be "when?" and I don't know that at the moment. If I find out, and get the green light to share it, I will.

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:43 pm 
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If anyone wants to see it themselves, Rob's response is: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.ph ... st18172258


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:01 pm 
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OK, stupid question time just so i make fully sure what this means:

Once the errata hits, GOWK gets his save versus both melee and ranged attacks right? Do auto damage attacks like missiles still go through?

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Umbra wrote:
OK, stupid question time just so i make fully sure what this means:

Once the errata hits, GOWK gets his save versus both melee and ranged attacks right? Do auto damage attacks like missiles still go through?


Yes, auto damage is just that. GOWK can do nothing against Lightning, Repulse, Push etc. He can, however, re-roll a failed missiles save. So missiles probably aren't the best way to go :P.


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:52 am 
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Cool. Nice to have a final answer on it. The 'waiting game' for the errata to get posted sucks, but hopefully they'll get it posted sooner rather than later.

I'll probably discuss it with my local group and see if we want to just go ahead and start running him as-is.

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:08 am 
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I sounds like more people are thinking of just making it a House Rule until Errata are posted. I wonder if NN posted it in blue if it'd make people feel better about using it ahead of time (probably not since its actually an Errata and not a regular Rules Question)...


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:26 am 
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Like with everything else, the hubbub will settle down after people run him for a few months.


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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Gemini1179 wrote:
Like with everything else, the hubbub will settle down after people run him for a few months.


I'm going to remember you said that. Why is it so hard to believe that with all the other mistakes they make at WotC that they couldn't have possibly made a piece that is too good??

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 Post subject: Re: Soresu Style Mastery works on anything???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Gemini1179 wrote:
Like with everything else, the hubbub will settle down after people run him for a few months.


I'm going to remember you said that. Why is it so hard to believe that with all the other mistakes they make at WotC that they couldn't have possibly made a piece that is too good??


Too good like DOOMBOT? Thrawn? Mara? Boba BH? JWM? The Mouse Droid? I have no problem with this as a casual player. I can understand the frustrations of a tournament player. Rob designs for the SWM core rules (one would assume), not DCI play. Despite the fact that Rob has admitted that the JWM was a mistake, was there ever a change made to that piece?

Right now people are sick of playing against Yobuck and GG DAC, I get that. But, it's no different from the times when people were sick of playing against Thrawn, or Boba BH. I'm sure after JA there will be those who complain that all the kids at their LGS run nothing but GMLS + filler (not that they will always be winning with it...). :roll:


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