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 Post subject: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:46 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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So what does everyone think?

Should we try to incorporate some of the new unique characters the Imperial Assault has brought us into the SWM game?

Here is the list at the moment
General Weiss IMP
Kayn Somos IMP
Fenn Signis Reb
Gaarkhan Reb
Diala Passil Reb
Jyn Odan Reb
Gideon Argus Reb
Mak Eshka'rey Reb
Biv Bodhrick Reb
Saska Teft Reb

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:51 am 
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I'd rather see focus on incorportating characters from the Star Wars Rebels series, the Star Wars the Clone Wars tv series and most importantly from the new movies coming out because these are all cannon and it makes for a brighter future for this game if new people come in and know about the characters that are coming out rather than a more obscure character know by only a few people. People will be really hyped for Star Wars in the years to come with all the movies and new seasons coming out, so to take advantage of this we need to make figures from these shows/movies to appeal to new players.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:40 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I'm not opposed to any Star Wars characters being represented in the game, but IA characters aren't at the top of my list. As mentioned, I'd rather see characters from Rebels and the movies.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:01 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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and more from the :oops: Ewok movies, like the Gorax?
is that it's name?
or maybe more toddlers, or kindergarten age children :roll: :roll: LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:43 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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I think the clone wars cartoon is about exhausted there maybe 5 characters left.

The problem with Rebels and the movies is you are always going to be way behind. I would guess minimum of 9 months but could be as much as 15. Right now we are not 100% sure of any of these folks names let alone what they are going to do.

With Rebels it is at least released in the Fall so that gives the design teams some time to change setlist and the like like to fit these characters in. Play testing generally really starts after the new year for sets released at Gencon. So for the movie released this December we won't see the cards till Feb of 2017 with vset 13. I mean the movie isn't released till Dec 18 and not much is done during the design phase during the holidays.

As for the point made that these are little known characters. Well we make vong and Mandos in every set and personally I know very little about them, but we still bump those out. I am not sure that argument hold much weight for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:08 pm 
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I'm not opposed to any Star Wars characters being represented in the game, but IA characters aren't at the top of my list.


+1

There will be some satisfaction in characters going from a disappointing game to a superior one, but then again, as the superior game, we'll be stuck with characters from a disappointing game.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:14 pm 
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LESHIPPY wrote:
As for the point made that these are little known characters. Well we make vong and Mandos in every set and personally I know very little about them, but we still bump those out. I am not sure that argument hold much weight for me.


I agree that we do make characters from the expanded universe that hardly anyone knows about for the Vong and Mando's. We probably could make more Mando's in future sets from the Star Wars the Clone Wars TV series (plenty of characters still left IMO), but unforutnately for factions like the OR, Mando's and Vong, most of if not all of their characters are strictly in the EU. It's absolutely fine to be taking characters from the EU for these factions because we don't have any choice. But for factions such as the Rebels, Imperials, Republic, Seperatists, and Sith we have much more options from the shows and the movies to pull characters from, and thus we don't need to rely on obscure EU characters not many people will know about to make figures in V-sets. I'm not saying we shouldn't use characters from Imperial Assault, but it just seems a bit unnecessary when we have many more to make into mini's form from shows and movies coming out right now.

I am really excited to finally see New Republic characters we can make into mini's that are going to be from movies when Star Wars The Force Awakens hits theaters! If we could reserve a few spots in Vset 12 for these NR characters, a few Fringe characters, the Sith Kai Lo Ren and Imperial characters like Captain Fasma and General Snoke that would be great. Best idea I think would be to have them all in a mini-set for V-set 12 called The Force Awakens.

If we had a mini-set for The Force Awakens, it would garner interest for sure at Gencon next year! So many kids and teens are going to be getting into Star Wars for the first time and when they see their favorite characters in a miniatures game that they can play, we have an opportunity to expand our player base and gain interest in this awesome game we play. I think that alone is worth the effort to try and get mini's made of the new characters from Force awakens and Rebels Season 2 as soon as possible before next years Gencon. I really loved hearing on SHNN about the new people that learned about this game and how to play it at Gencon!

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:22 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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while IA is a Star Wars game, it is competing with SWM's.
We wouldn't make a Professor Plum, Mr Moneybags, or a Queen Frosting
character, would we? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:58 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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You all do realize we made shimi, owen and breu right. What any of them are doing in a skirmish game makes me scratch my head. I don't know that IA is any better or worse then SWM there aren't enough pieces to truly tell yet. At least they go the range on shooters right and the command deck adds another level of thinking and planning into the squad building.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:21 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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TimmerB123 wrote:
There will be some satisfaction in characters going from a disappointing game to a superior one, but then again, as the superior game, we'll be stuck with characters from a disappointing game.

Disappointing? :shock: Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I prefer Imperial Assault to SWM, actually. It obviously doesn't have the depth of characters and available squad choices that SWM has...and it won't have that for a while. [But then, it also doesn't have the TN group! lol oops, that probably wasn't good to say]

But IMO it has gotten a lot of things right already, that SWM never had.
--The range factor (which Les mentioned) should've been present in SWM from the start
--Command Cards (which Les also mentioned) add a whole extra layer to squad building and the actual gameplay
--Mission Objectives are a very different (and far more interesting) version of Gambit. They are different on every mission (and each map has 2 missions), and they force your tactics to be different in each mission. This is a HUGE advantage over SWM, where you are technically "engaged in the game" if you're sitting in Gambit. I have never once seen a stalemate situation in IA, where neither squad is willing or able to engage the other squad without losing the game. But that happens regularly (less and less regularly recently, thankfully) in SWM.
--It is virtually impossible to get a points lead and run away (ie, stall) in IA, since the maps are so small and enemy characters only hinder movement but don't block it. It is a much more fluid gameplay experience. And faster.
--Games are usually over in 30-40 minutes, rather than the 60+ that we often find with SWM.
--NO LOCKOUTS! Seriously, this factor alone should be enough to grab the interest of SWM players.
--No JarJar Binks.
--FFG is actually interested in the tournament experience for its players, whereas WotC...well, at least they produced the minis. In IA a Players Group has just been formed, at the initiation of the game designers, to keep a pulse on how the competitive scene is going. The game designers are actually interested and invested in peoples' enjoyment of the competitive game. This is leagues ahead of anything WotC ever did.
--this is just a start, but I'll stop here since I need to get back to work.

I'll also mention this since I think it bears on the discussion: There were 3 of the regular/main/longtime SWM players in the IA Championship this year: Matt Peterson, Jonny Brooks, and me. We finished 6th, 9th, and 10th (respectively), in a field of 54...and I was a single dice roll away from going 4-1, which would've placed me in the Top 8. This says a number of things: experience with SWM is a huge advantage in IA, because a lot of the thinking and tactics are quite similar. Basically, if you're good at SWM, you'll likely be good at IA too. Something about outmaneuvering your opponent on a gridded map, and learning to think in terms of priority of targets and timing, etc...these skills from SWM transfer over to IA almost directly.


So I guess you're allowed to call IA a disappointing game. You'll just be mistaken in doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:33 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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thereisnotry wrote:
--Mission Objectives are a very different (and far more interesting) version of Gambit. They are different on every mission (and each map has 2 missions), and they force your tactics to be different in each mission. This is a HUGE advantage over SWM, where you are technically "engaged in the game" if you're sitting in Gambit. I have never once seen a stalemate situation in IA, where neither squad is willing or able to engage the other squad without losing the game. But that happens regularly (less and less regularly recently, thankfully) in SWM.


I suggested this sort of thing in one of the 'suggestions' thread a long time ago. I don't think it got any support from anyone and was shot down pretty vigorously by some folks.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:47 am 
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FlyingArrow wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
--Mission Objectives are a very different (and far more interesting) version of Gambit. They are different on every mission (and each map has 2 missions), and they force your tactics to be different in each mission. This is a HUGE advantage over SWM, where you are technically "engaged in the game" if you're sitting in Gambit. I have never once seen a stalemate situation in IA, where neither squad is willing or able to engage the other squad without losing the game. But that happens regularly (less and less regularly recently, thankfully) in SWM.


I suggested this sort of thing in one of the 'suggestions' thread a long time ago. I don't think it got any support from anyone and was shot down pretty vigorously by some folks.


I've felt that this should have been a thing built into the game from the beginning, but it's one of those things that we're too far along to implement now I think. It really is brilliant, and I think the biggest strength of IA over SWM. It adds such a compelling additional layer of tactics to the game that also manages to actually make the game quicker and feel more active, and it also opens the design space up in very very cool ways, allowing them to make a more fun game. The command deck has a lot of these advantages too (additional tactical layer, more design space), but does so a little less elegantly than the missions.


As for adding IA characters, I don't think that's worth doing. FFG does it so they can write new storylines in the campaign mode without having to worry about already-written stuff for those characters. We do basically the opposite; specifically take already-written characters and adapt them for our game. They get much more freedom of design and the ability to make really interesting stories and characters, while we get to take established characters that people love to see and already have an affinity towards (little kid Anakin notwithstanding). Neither is better necessarily, but the way our game works and is communicated to the player just doesn't allow for the creation of new stories like theirs does. I don't think their new characters quite have that love and affinity to be worth adding to SWM, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Assault uniques in future vsets?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:33 am 
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How may Lukes, Hans, Landos, Leia, and Vaders do we really need? I know that most people like these characters. But come on.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:43 am 
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LESHIPPY wrote:
How may Lukes, Hans, Landos, Leia, and Vaders do we really need? I know that most people like these characters. But come on.


It's more like the franchise is in transition where the old hero's are being replaced by new Hero's such as Rebels Kanan, Hera, Sabine, Zeb, Ezra and SW Ep 7's Finn, Rey, and Poe Dameron. These are pieces we will need multiple versions of in the coming sets since they are now just as main a character as the old hero's. Probably could do with another version of Ahsoka down the line since we only have a couple of her from WotC and none from the V-sets.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:10 pm 
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I'm with Daniel on this. While I love IA in many ways, I just don't think the IA-specific characters would gain any traction with the SWM crowd who haven't played IA. I mean, who is Fenn Signis? Probably 90% of our SWM community has never even heard of him. Every IA-SWM crossover player knows him and thinks he's kinda cool, but most of the rest of the community wouldn't care. We'd probably do better just building more of the SWTOR characters before the IA guys...and the movie and TV show characters before more SWTOR guys.

And as much as I have no interest in reading about obscure characters like Drooje Brolo or Lok Durd (my wife thinks his name is hilarious...kinda like constipation!), at least I do have the option of going to Wookieepedia to find out. That's a much bigger leap for the IA characters.

So, as awesome as IA is, I just don't think those characters will work for SWM.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:16 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
So I guess you're allowed to call IA a disappointing game. You'll just be mistaken in doing so.


Yes I am allowed to. And since it's my OPINION, I am not mistaken. Let's get that straight first.

I was HUGELY disappointed. I went all in on preodering everything. My shipment was delayed, and in the interim I played several games. Boy was I glad my shipment was delayed. I cancelled it all and have never regretted it. In my opinion imperial assault is on par with X-Wing, a fine casual game but nothing to get invested into.

It seems to me it's much better as a role playing game, but SWM is far superior as a pure strategy game. Luck is amplified too much in IA.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:38 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
So I guess you're allowed to call IA a disappointing game. You'll just be mistaken in doing so.


Yes I am allowed to. And since it's my OPINION, I am not mistaken. Let's get that straight first.
Okay, if it's an opinion (which, you're right, is neither right nor wrong), then don't state it as fact. To make an unbounded claim that IA is a disappointing and inferior game is to step beyond the bounds of opinion and into the realm of fact.

Interestingly, I had the reverse conversation with someone over on the FFG boards several months ago. He made a bunch of broad and completely biased statements about SWM, but claimed them as fact. I responded and said that not all people saw it that way. Then he went off on me, claiming that I was out of line. All he had to do from the start was to say, "IMHO" or "not everyone sees it this way, but I've always thought...."

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:32 am 
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thereisnotry wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
So I guess you're allowed to call IA a disappointing game. You'll just be mistaken in doing so.


Yes I am allowed to. And since it's my OPINION, I am not mistaken. Let's get that straight first.
Okay, if it's an opinion (which, you're right, is neither right nor wrong), then don't state it as fact. To make an unbounded claim that IA is a disappointing and inferior game is to step beyond the bounds of opinion and into the realm of fact.

Interestingly, I had the reverse conversation with someone over on the FFG boards several months ago. He made a bunch of broad and completely biased statements about SWM, but claimed them as fact. I responded and said that not all people saw it that way. Then he went off on me, claiming that I was out of line. All he had to do from the start was to say, "IMHO" or "not everyone sees it this way, but I've always thought...."


Not to be pedantic, but BY DEFINITION - disappointing is from a specific point of view. To be universally disappointing, you'd have to add extra verbiage (such as universally).

The FIRST definition of disappoint when doing a Google search:

Disappoint: fail to fulfill the hopes or expectations of someone


So my statement was clear, your interpretation was incorrect. ;)

Love you Trevor. All in good fun.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:48 am 
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I don't play IA...too far down the excess fundage priority list to invest any time or interest in. That being said, if a character in the game does something unique and cool and we can port that ability over into SWM, I say we should. As to making a concerted effort to introduce them, I don't see the need at the present time. Let's keep that list of characters as a resource, though...and keep our minds open to new areas to explore. I'd be...disappointed if we don't. >8 )

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:17 am 
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LESHIPPY wrote:
How may Lukes, Hans, Landos, Leia, and Vaders do we really need? I know that most people like these characters. But come on.

amen to that! Les, A f-ing men!

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