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 Post subject: Inside the minds of the design team - Yaddle, Jedi Master
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:32 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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LESHIPPY Online

Added the descriptor. It can always be removed
=====================

TimmerB123 Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:30 pm

Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 34

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique.
Melee Attack; Double Attack

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Morichr Style [Enemies within 6 gain Speed 4 and -4 attack]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Force Sacrifice [Force 3: Usable anytime. This turn allies' cannot have their Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of this turn this character is defeated]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies under this characters cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal, gain Mettle, Lightsaber Defense and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



There's a lot about her that is very interesting. My main idea here is to try and improve (mostly) clone strike era Jedi. You know - the crappy ones from the first couple of sets that never get used anymore. Since I don't think you can really say, "Republic allies from the Clone Strike and Revenge of the Sith sets" - it's hard to isolate them.

Well once I got to thinking, what were some abilities that practically everyone and their mom has now? Lightsaber Defense (a jedi staple post WotC) and Renewal (a common factor even in the last half of WotC). When I did a Bloomilk search on who had neither, there were very very few left who were any good. I think this is a good target group.

Coleman Trebor, Jax Pavan, Barriss Offee, Nahdar Vebb, Ahsoka Tano, The Dark Woman, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Padawan, Stass Allie, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Trainer, Roron Corobb, Shaak Ti, Anakin Skywalker, Quinlan Vos, Saesee Tiin, Aayla Secura, Etain Tur-Mukan, Plo Koon, Agen Kolar, Anakin Skywalker, Jedi, Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Knight, Depa Billaba, Even Piell, Luminara Unduli, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Padawan, Agen Kolar, Jedi Master, Eeth Koth, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Jedi Master, Quinlan Vos, Infiltrator, Voolvif Monn

Of these 31, 9 are from Clone Strike, 4 from RotS. Only 5 are from the vsets, and the rest are all WotC. The best of the lot are Dark Woman and Coleman Trebor - but I don't think either is broken (and I don't know how to disclude them).

So although not perfect - I think this is a pretty good net to get what we want.


Beyond that - her FPs and SAs could be numerous. I wanted to keep her cost down (both to disclude certain allies that would otherwise qualify, like Anakin on Stap and Yodabuck, and so you can fit more old crappy jedi in with her).

From Wookieepedia -
Quote:
Yaddle's exposure to little-known aspects of the Force granted her powers rarely used by Jedi, including the ancient and forbidden Jedi combat art of Morichro, a technique which enabled the user to rapidly slow down the bodily functions of its target to the point of death.
Hope this approximation works.

She did also use Force Light, but I decided not to use it both because of keeping cost down and card space, but also because that ability is not that great.

Force Sacrifice because of this:

(From Wookieepedia)
Quote:
Yaddle used the Force to absorb the bomb into herself, imploding and unfortunately dying, making sure that nobody on Mawan would be exposed to the lethal chemical explosion.
Might be a minor strafe/gallop counter (although at great cost)
==================

urbanshmi2
Cool. When I first saw the CE I thought it was excessively complex, but I think it could work with minor rewording.

I really like the approximation of Morichro Style--makes sense.
===========================

TimmerB123
Quote:
urbanshmi2 wrote:
Cool. When I first saw the CE I thought it was excessively complex, but I think it could work with minor rewording.

I really like the approximation of Morichro Style--makes sense.



Glad you like it, but I'm not sure I do now. In the end it's pretty severe Melee hate. 6 away but gain speed 4? Can't attack her then.

Suggestions?
=============================

urbanshmi2
Quote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Quote:
urbanshmi2 wrote:
Cool. When I first saw the CE I thought it was excessively complex, but I think it could work with minor rewording.

I really like the approximation of Morichro Style--makes sense
.


Glad you like it, but I'm not sure I do now. In the end it's pretty severe Melee hate. 6 away but gain speed 4? Can't attack her then.

Suggestions?



Hmm, good point. I'll have to think about it. It just seems like a really cool ability (slowing down an enemy's vital functions), and I'm not sure how to approximate it in-game.
=============================

fingersandteeth
reading up on Morichro its going to be hard to implement it as a lightsaber style.

I mean, i basically puts the target into a coma. Its a directed ability, not a passive thing that is the result of the LS style like makashi or djem so etc.

If you have it as a bubble around her then she generally messes around with anyone who comes close which is generally melee guys.

Also, being a force power, it shouldn't be able to act in Ysalimiri. It seems to be a stunning ability like perhaps it could be a persistent stun like force corruption but the loss of the save upon activation means you remain activated.

Also, Yaddle is one of the few jedi to have been known to use Force light. With her intention to boost lesser Jedi with her CE, that would be very handy to have.
The ability already exists and seldom used. I think it would fit really well on what you have as the preliminary stat point.

Lastly, she should end up with some pretty awesome force powers and as a result should not be less than Jorus C'baoth.
She could have rapport for the cheaper jedi (the ones she boosts) to offeset the increase in cost

i don't know if Morichro below will work as written. Its a new precedent of attempting a save to activate or remaining activated. That might not work rule wise.

Quote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique.
Melee Attack; Double Attack
Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]
Rapport [Unique Republic allies under this characters cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal cost 2 less]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Force light [Force 4, usable only on this character's turn: Until the end of the round, this character gains the following Force ability: Enemy characters within 6 squares cannot spend Force points or benefit from allied Force powers. Enemy Force abilities within 6 are suppressed.]

Force Sacrifice [Force 3: Usable anytime. This turn allies' cannot have their Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of this turn this character is defeated]

Morichro [Force 2: replaces attacks: range 6, target living enemy is activated, save 16. When the affected character next attempts to activate, it must attempt a save of 11. On a failure, that character is considered already activated and must attempt a save when it attempts to activate next round, on a success it activates normally and requires no more saves to activate.]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies under this characters cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal, gain Mettle, Lightsaber Defense and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell

============================

TimmerB123
I see where you are going on this, not against it.

First off isn't this a rapport nightmare for Dave?

That aside - I got several cool suggestions from TJ and Dave about Morichro. I'm pondering and I may make a blend of a few of them and post it soo. Deri - I think yours could potentially be too brutal. 2-3 failed saves means that character is likely done for good.

Force light really isn't that great of a PF. Especially for 4 PFs. We can put it on there but I'm thinking room is gonna be a big issue on her card.

Also - I totally left off any connection with Oppo Rancisis - her padawan. I'd like to have some connection. Synergy, camaraderie, (probably not rapport if Deri's suggestion flies)
=======================

TimmerB123
Side note completely off topic -

:lol: TJ and Dave. Hilarious - hadn't made that connection before. In addition to two of our amazing QC/rules/do-everything-awesome guys - Two of the most famous improv guys in Chicago that have a long running improv show are named TJ and Dave. You may have seen the Sonic commercials.

Just type in TJ & Dave in your search engine - it's all them.
==============================

TimmerB123
Morichro [Force 2: replaces attacks; Target enemy within 6 gains Speed 4, -4 attack and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn]

I really wanted to keep the speed hinderance in there somehow. Force users can just spend a FP to base her still, Vong aren't effected, and I doubt you'd replace her attacks to slow anyone else down. Thoughts?
=========================

fingersandteeth Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:20 pm

it doesn't fill me with excitement.

Perhaps a 0 time power only on her turn?
=============================
swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:47 pm

that's funny Tim :)

Quote:
Quote:
Rapport [Unique Republic allies under this characters cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal cost 2 less]


I'll have to look to be sure, but I think the mechanics to do this are already be present in Bloomilk's database. It's quite a mouthful.
===========================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:18 pm

Quote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Morichro [Force 2: replaces attacks; Target enemy within 6 gains Speed 4, -4 attack and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn]

I really wanted to keep the speed hinderance in there somehow. Force users can just spend a FP to base her still, Vong aren't effected, and I doubt you'd replace her attacks to slow anyone else down. Thoughts?



I like the mechanism. I also think it would probably be ok as a zero-time on her turn, as Deri said.
==========================

LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:21 pm

I think it would work better as a zero time ability
========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:54 am

Zero time force power it is.

Also added small Oppo connection

Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique.
Melee Attack; Double Attack

Camaraderie [An ally named Oppo Rancisis gains mettle]

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Rapport [Unique Republic allies under this character's cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal cost 2 less]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Force Sacrifice (Force 3: Whenever this character an ally takes damage on an opponent's turn, all characters in your squad may not have their hit points reduced below 10 until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.)

Morichro [Force 2: usable only on this character's turn; Target enemy within 6 gains Speed 4, -4 attack and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies under this character's cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal, gain Mettle, Lightsaber Defense and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell

==========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:03 pm

Question for Dave:

Force Sacrifice [Force 3: Usable anytime. This turn allies' cannot have their Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of this turn this character is defeated]

What would happen if she used this ability, and then the enemy killed her? (Say she had 10 hp left and was in front of her squad facing a strafer) Would the ability still last until the end of the turn, or would it "shut off"?

If it would shut off - we might have to go with:

Force Sacrifice [Force 3: Usable anytime. This turn characters in your squad (including this character) cannot have their Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of this turn this character is defeated]
=========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:42 pm

bump
=====================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:07 pm

'Usable anytime' seems questionable as it is not defined.

We're doing a similar (if not the same) timing with Trigger Defeat. If that type of thing is going to become more prevalent, then it might make sense to define it to spare all the extra wording, but adding new core game rule is not a decision to be made lightly.

For now, the 2nd version is better.
=========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:02 pm

How about this?

Quote:
Quote:
Force Sacrifice [Force 3: Usable whenever a character in your squad (including this character) were to take damage. This turn characters in your squad (including this character) cannot have their Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of this turn this character is defeated]

=====================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:42 pm

I'm going to clean up some stuff in the stat block, and repost.

There will be comments, and possibly some bitching. :mrgreen:
=========================

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the minds of the design team - Yaddle, Jedi Master
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:32 am 
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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:47 pm

Force light is gonna go. Just not enough room.
===============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:58 pm

Quote:
Quote:
Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]



Quote:
Markedman247 wrote:
Is this an inclusive ability? Ie living, non-living , or both?



Fair question. Designers - what do you think?

I think it might be slightly more accurate as living only, but for room on the card, simplicity, and making the ability slightly more useful - I'm leaning toward fully inclusive.

Losing Doombot might tip the scales toward not using the ability
================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:28 am

Dave -

So her rapport - doable?
==============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:16 am

Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Camaraderie [An ally named Oppo Rancisis gains Mettle]

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Rapport [Unique Republic characters under this character's cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal cost 2 less]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]


Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies under this character's cost with a force rating and a lightsaber who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal, gain Mettle, Lightsaber Defense and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



PT
=========================

LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:21 am

PT
=============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:24 am

Bump for Laura or Deri
========================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:47 pm
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PT
=============================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:50 pm

Fixed up the wording of Morichro.

It's not easy to explain why and how much I dislike the word salad that makes up Rapport and the CE. Fortunately, I don't really need to. They wreak enough havoc on card space to scrap them for that reason alone.

The intent is admirable, but broad-brush boosts to crappy pieces are tricky to limit to just what really needs it, and have potential to impact future design. I would recommend picking a couple old characters that fit in her story line, and maybe they even fall into the group you are aiming at, then boost those pieces specifically.

It would be much simpler, and make for a better looking card. Please think about it. :)
===============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:19 pm

Fixed up the wording of Morichro.

It's not easy to explain why and how much I dislike the word salad that makes up Rapport and the CE. Fortunately, I don't really need to. They wreak enough havoc on card space to scrap them for that reason alone.

The intent is admirable, but broad-brush boosts to crappy pieces are tricky to limit to just what really needs it, and have potential to impact future design. I would recommend picking a couple old characters that fit in her story line, and maybe they even fall into the group you are aiming at, then boost those pieces specifically.

It would be much simpler, and make for a better looking card. Please think about it. :)


I've been waiting for this comment

I understand what you are saying and am considering it thoroughly.

I'm glad you at least think the intent is admirable.

If only we could say, "characters from the clone strike set" I'd be happy
==============================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:35 am
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TimmerB123 wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
If only we could say, "characters from the clone strike set" I'd be happy


I'd love it if we could just say 'single attack'. :)
===============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:19 am

That nearly exact thing was attempted with Master Yoda. IMO, that was a failure. (Coincidentally these two are the exact same price, and lets face it - Yaddle IS female Yoda)

If we went with the single attack route - how would we disclude twin? (Does it innately do that?)

Regardless, if we are going this route at all, it has to be unqiue, republic, under her cost, force users with lightsabers. So that is already a mouthful.

sigh
=============================

Weeks Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:48 pm

Seeing as Qui-Gon's CE is kinda doing the same thing why not just have Yaddle play the support role? Sacrifice is really good, her D is really good. Why not have her CE just be Allies gain Mettle? Somewhere around 30 as her cost and her debuff powers with that CE would give her her own little niche. And Reroll saves Yoda would pair incredibly well with her.

I kinda feel like she's trying to do too much and rehash Master Yoda when just a debuff/booster for republic at a nice price point is probably more her speed.
=============================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:52 pm
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I like what Weeks is saying. CS Yoda!

I was going to suggest something sorta similar to Master Yoda, but scoped toward this:
Quote:
Quote:
During her time as a Jedi, Yaddle represented the Jedi Council on many off world missions. She went to Asmeru in 33 BBY with a group of Jedi including Vergere, Saesee Tiin, Depa Billaba and Qui-Gon Jinn, as well as his Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi, where they were attacked by Nebula Front members, but managed to defeat them.


Commander Effect (?)
Allies named Saesee Tiin, Depa Billaba, or Qui-Gon Jinn may make an immediate attack at the end of their turn.

So, not exactly like Master Yoda, and for just those pieces. I'm not sure I'm thinking through it correctly, but if I am, it would be kinda kickass with Master Yoda. Move 12, immediate attack, then Yoda's attack. If that doesn't fly, oh well, it's close to his, but better as they can basically double/triple standing still.

Just a half-baked idea I was having some fun with. Weeks makes sense, she's pretty good on her own without doing much for others.

But hey, Shaak Ti (JM) filled her spot on the council after she died, and dying is part of her thing, so maybe Yaddle could hand over some power to her when she goes. K, I'll shut up now. :D

=============================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:28 pm

I actually like both Davids's comments (talk about a mouthful!).

I think we're closing in on this.

================================
TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterhPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:55 pm

Quote:
Weeks wrote:
Seeing as Qui-Gon's CE is kinda doing the same thing why not just have Yaddle play the support role? Sacrifice is really good, her D is really good. Why not have her CE just be Allies gain Mettle? Somewhere around 30 as her cost and her debuff powers with that CE would give her her own little niche. And Reroll saves Yoda would pair incredibly well with her.

I kinda feel like she's trying to do too much and rehash Master Yoda when just a debuff/booster for republic at a nice price point is probably more her speed.


It's funny, Quiggy started out with something different as a CE and was changed to what it is now. Yaddle's main focus was to attempt to make the currently unplayable old Jedi playable. Perhaps they are perminantly unplayable.

That aside, there is a very specific reason she has to be 44points or more: Jorus C'boath Jedi Master. (how quickly everyone forgets)

Between Froce Sacrifice and Morichro, those force powers would be very strong on, say a 14 pt piece.

We spent a good bit of energy shaping those two force powers, and I think in a way those have become the focus of this piece.

I am happy with Force Sacrifice, even if it will only come up in very specific circumstances. It's more the threat of the option rather than using it frequently. I am totally fine with that.

Morichro is interesting and new. On an important 44 pt piece - could be good. With Jorus giving it out - likely broken.

So options are: Rival Jorus (which makes zero sense thematically), 44pts or higher, or scrap her force powers. 44 pts or higher seemed like the best option.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Swinefeld - the big issue is the rapport, correct? Not the CE?

So I think we are at a point where we just need to drop rapport all together, instead of trying to tie it in with the CE.

That's a good first step.

As far as her CE just giving out mettle to everyone, that wouldn't work. There would have to be a limit. (Her cost or under, etc.) We don't want a map full of mini GOWKs. Can you imagine giving new Ani/Obi Mettle? Nuts!!!

I really think we need to keep her at 44pts (or higher) and make her worth that.
==============================

Weeks Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterhPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:59 pm

Quote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Seeing as Qui-Gon's CE is kinda doing the same thing why not just have Yaddle play the support role? Sacrifice is really good, her D is really good. Why not have her CE just be Allies gain Mettle? Somewhere around 30 as her cost and her debuff powers with that CE would give her her own little niche. And Reroll saves Yoda would pair incredibly well with her.

I kinda feel like she's trying to do too much and rehash Master Yoda when just a debuff/booster for republic at a nice price point is probably more her speed.


It's funny, Quiggy started out with something different as a CE and was changed to what it is now. Yaddle's main focus was to attempt to make the currently unplayable old Jedi playable. Perhaps they are perminantly unplayable.

That aside, there is a very specific reason she has to be 44points or more: Jorus C'boath Jedi Master. (how quickly everyone forgets)

Between Froce Sacrifice and Morichro, those force powers would be very strong on, say a 14 pt piece.

We spent a good bit of energy shaping those two force powers, and I think in a way those have become the focus of this piece.

I am happy with Force Sacrifice, even if it will only come up in very specific circumstances. It's more the threat of the option rather than using it frequently. I am totally fine with that.

Morichro is interesting and new. On an important 44 pt piece - could be good. With Jorus giving it out - likely broken.

So options are: Rival Jorus (which makes zero sense thematically), 44pts or higher, or scrap her force powers. 44 pts or higher seemed like the best option.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Swinefeld - the big issue is the rapport, correct? Not the CE?

So I think we are at a point where we just need to drop rapport all together, instead of trying to tie it in with the CE.

That's a good first step.

As far as her CE just giving out mettle to everyone, that wouldn't work. There would have to be a limit. (Her cost or under, etc.) We don't want a map full of mini GOWKs. Can you imagine giving new Ani/Obi Mettle? Nuts!!!

I really think we need to keep her at 44pts (or higher) and make her worth that.



Ani/Obi get mettle and init control for 16 points. Yaddle doesn't really work with them. Making bad pieces to help bad pieces doesn't work. We tried that with Master Yoda and he's not played.
=================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:17 pm

Quote:
Weeks wrote:
Ani/Obi get mettle and init control for 16 points.


Missed that combo. That is an issue. but that is for their thread.
Quote:
Weeks wrote:
Making bad pieces to help bad pieces doesn't work.



Of course it doesn't. The goal is to make a good piece that helps bad ones.

Perhaps that is not going to happen with this piece now.

Re-reading through this thread was enlightening. I think sometimes we forget how we got to a certain point with a fig, and just see where it's at now and make knee-jerk reactions to change it (I'm guilty too).

As a side note, this made me giggle:

from September 15th, 2014:
Quote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
I see where you are going on this . . . First off isn't this a rapport nightmare for Dave?



So consider the rapport gone. The CE in flux. Let's talk about the new force powers and Jorus. Let's get that sorted out first.
================================

Weeks Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:02 pm

If you want her job to be saving people just make that a CE.

CE: The first each turn a unique ally would be defeated it instead returns to play in its current square with 10 HP.

That CE and some general Jedi powers at around 30 makes her a piece that would completely change how deep strikers work without any clunky wording.

===========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterhPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:22 pm

Like I said - We spent a good bit of energy shaping those two force powers, and I think in a way those have become the focus of this piece.

I certainly don't want to make deep strikers better. That is already a tried and true proven method. The only thing that tempers it is the fact that the deep striker is then in extreme danger.

We specifically made morichro a force power rather than an SA or CE in part to not screw the Vong. They are mostly melee and don't have the FP to make up for the -2 speed penalty. Other factions can deal with it, it's just a hinderance, not making it so someone can stay completely safe within 6 of a big baddie.

As far as what is next with this character, I really think we should focus on how to handle Jorus and her. Scrapping the entire thing and starting over (which is essentially what some of the above suggestions boil down to) should be the absolute last option.
===============================

LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:29 pm

Yeah I don't want to start completely over. I dont' have time to read through everything at the moment. I will try to look through it tonight and if the other designers can look at t as well and then the 4 of us can come together on what we think will be the right directions.

Thanks to everyone for providing input on this.
===============================

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the minds of the design team - Yaddle, Jedi Master
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:33 am 
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urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:34 pm

I will be looking at this carefully tonight. Tim and I have a long car ride ahead of us tomorrow -- this piece will probably be on the agenda :fight2:
===========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:38 pm

Just went through some of the (many, many) Facebook vset 10 design team facebook threads. There's a lot of good insight there. We had Yaddle aimed at a power level 6 (of 10). So a fun piece, but not top tier. I think costing at 44 or above with some of the general ideas that we have with her will most likely put her squarely in that power range. Dropping her to 30 would certainly bump her up the power scale, not to mention the issues with Jorus.
==========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:12 pm

Just posting to see what it looks like without the Rapport.

Another crack at a CE.

Part of the original goal was to help Jedi get across the board without getting smoked.

Dropping the "without LS Defense" clause, and instead of it giving out 3 abilities, only give out 2. Soresu Style and Force Renewal 1

It took off a good couple of lines in the CE, and dropping the rapport is a huge relief to card space (as well as Swinefeld, I am sure)

Obviously gave her Soresu Style too.

Dropping MotF 2 (to prevent her being a super evader).



Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Camaraderie [An ally named Oppo Rancisis gains Mettle]

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Soresu Style [When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies under this character's cost with a force rating and a lightsaber, and who do not have force renewal gain Soresu Style and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell

=================================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:26 pm

To be clear - my comments really only pertain to the Rapport and CE, and attempting to boost old pieces. I like her own bag of tricks a lot.

There were way too many qualifiers, because it was trying to catch way too much. It was hard to read, write, and came off as forced.
===============================
TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:37 pm

Is this attempt better?

It's shaved down considerably. And the rapport is gone alltogether

I took the qualifiers (minus not having force renewal) directly from (ironically) Jorus.
================================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:55 pm

I am indeed glad to see the Rapport gone. :)

This is what you get with the new CE (give or take a few if I didn't filter exactly right)

Coleman Trebor
Jax Pavan
Barriss Offee
Nahdar Vebb
Ahsoka Tano
The Dark Woman
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Padawan
Stass Allie
Foul Moudama
Commander Ahsoka
Ki-Adi-Mundi
Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Trainer
Roron Corobb
Shaak Ti
Anakin Skywalker
Quinlan Vos
Saesee Tiin
Aayla Secura
Etain Tur-Mukan
Plo Koon
Agen Kolar
Anakin Skywalker, Jedi
Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Knight
Depa Billaba
Even Piell
Luminara Unduli
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Padawan
Agen Kolar, Jedi Master
Eeth Koth
Kit Fisto
Jocasta Nu
Ki-Adi-Mundi, Jedi Master
Quinlan Vos, Infiltrator
Voolvif Monn
Adi Gallia
Anakin Skywalker on STAP
Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Master
General Kenobi
Master Tholme
Plo Koon, Jedi Master
Qui-Gon Jinn
Obi-Wan on Boga
Kit Fisto, Jedi Master
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master

That's a big list (44). Admittedly, it does catch a lot of what you were aiming for, and many of those pieces could certainly use the boosts, but I'm quite certain some others were deliberately designed with certain weaknesses, static force etc. for a reason.

I don't have a problem with having multiple qualifiers to scope a CE, if it works...
============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:44 am
Here's a weird thought to shorten the list - those with less than 4 starting FPs. Don't need lightsaber that way, don't need under this characters cost.

So -
Unique Republic allies who do not have either Lightsaber Defense or Force Renewal and start with 1-3 force points gain . . .

Now you have:

Coleman Trebor
Jax Pavan
Barriss Offee
Nahdar Vebb
Ahsoka Tano
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Padawan
Ki-Adi-Mundi
Shaak Ti
Quinlan Vos
Saesee Tiin
Aayla Secura
Etain Tur-Mukan
Depa Billaba
Luminara Unduli
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Padawan
Quinlan Vos, Infiltrator

(and dropping "below her cost" only adds)
Saesee Tiin Jedi Master
Kazdan Paratus

18 total
============================

fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:06 am

Why not
unique allies with a lightsaber without either Double Attack, Triple Attack or Twin Attack gain X.
=================================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:10 am

f
Quote:
ingersandteeth wrote:
why not
unique allies with a lightsaber without either Double Attack, Triple Attack or Twin Attack gain X.


Force Renewal 1, Knight Speed, Lightsaber Assault and Lightsaber Reflect (10). :DSBoom:

:lol:

obviously, can't define a whole bunch of stuff, but by comparing all those single attackers surely there is something(s) that would be relatively useful to all.
==============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:35 am

Quote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
why not
unique allies with a lightsaber without either Double Attack, Triple Attack or Twin Attack gain X.


If we add "below her cost", then we lose Pong Krell and Mace Windu Lightning squad leader (good ones to drop)

after that - we have:

Coleman Trebor
Jax Pavan
Barriss Offee
The Dark Woman
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Padawan
Stass Allie
Ki-Adi-Mundi
Shaak Ti
Saesee Tiin
Aayla Secura
Etain Tur-Mukan
Plo Koon
Agen Kolar
Agen Kolar, Jedi Master
Kit Fisto


Nearly the same number I had on my list, and even though the CE would end up being as long, it's less convoluted.

None of these have renewal, so that is certainly an option. We could do Soresu for a defensive slant - LS assault to give them an offensive punch.

We could probably do all 3. The only ones on that list that aren't total crap are Coleman Trebor and The Dark Woman. And Dark Woman has force cloak already, so Soresu isn't the biggest help. Also won't be able to force phase and LS assault (can't have Jorus on this squad to help her do that either).

Jax is decent, but really only in rebels with all that help. I guess you could set up a czerka and get a LS assault twin, but you've earned it if you can set that up.

Since she is 44 points, and no rapport to help offset that - I think whatever it is needs to be good.

Is this too crazy?

Quote:
Quote:
Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber who are below this character's cost, without either Double Attack, Triple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Soresu Style, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.



We'd give her Soresu and LS assault (maybe even drop double off her). I assume we would not need to define force renewal 1.

That would leave nothing to define within the CE
==========================

LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:03 am

Quote:
Quote:
Is this too crazy?


Quote:
Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber who are below this character's cost, without either Double Attack, Triple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Soresu Style, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.


IMO yes

Still seems very wordy and confusing

Unique Republic allies who start the skirmish with 3 Force points or less, does not have force renewal, and cost less then this character, gain Soresu Style, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.

I am not sure if this is any better. At least it is only looking at three things instead of five.
=============================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:10 pm

Medium or smaller takes care of MaceT-RT, and Pong's Rival auto-excludes him.

Just to clarify the (current) cost concerns.
=============================

FlyingArrow Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:18 pm

Mace AT-RT has Double. Epic Mace has quadruple.
=============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:05 pm
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So since Mace on AT-RT has double and I was wrong about Pong - we don't even need the "below this characters cost" clause. Certainly shortens it up a bit.

Quote:
Quote:
Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Soresu Style, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.



By way of comparison:

This is Jorus' ability (and it's worse, since it's an PF and not a CE)

Quote:
Quote:
Force 3, replaces turn: Until the end of this characters next turn, he gains the following Force ability: Once per turn, Unique Republic allies with a Force rating and a lightsaber may use a Force power from another Living Unique Republic character in your squad (including this character) as if it was their own. Unique Republic allies with a Force rating may use this character’s Force points as well as their own. (A character still can't spend Force points more than once per turn and can't combine its own Force points with this character's.) When this character next activates, he joins the opponent’s squad; save 6. This Force power may not be shared.



As for another CE, I randomly picked Pong Krell.

Quote:
Quote:
Whenever an ally with Order 66 would be defeated, it returns to its squad's setup area with full Hit Points instead; save 16. On a failure, that ally is defeated and all other allies with Order 66 get +1 Attack. (This bonus is cumulative.)



Note that it is longer. And his is far from the longest CE.


Just to put it all into perspective
=============================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:09 pm

Liking that much better. Are we almost a go for PT?

============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:33 pm

Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Camaraderie [An ally named Oppo Rancisis gains Mettle]

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Soresu Style [When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Soresu Style, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



PT
=================================

fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:56 pm

change assault to defense or give paddle assault because otherwise you will have to define assault and you don't have the space.

Otherwise its fine.
==========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:30 pm


Swap defense for LS Assault. (She has soresu for defense)
================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:09 am

TimmerB123 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Camaraderie [An ally named Oppo Rancisis gains Mettle]

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Soresu Style [When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Soresu Style, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell


Fixed - dropped LS Defense. Added LS Assault

PT
==========================
urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:03 am

PT
=========================

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the minds of the design team - Yaddle, Jedi Master
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:33 am 
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LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:19 pm

PT

I just don't think there is much we can do with out a wordy CE
=================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:05 am

Small base RM. And can't really get around that.

No swap for Yaddle

So adding Master Speed, dropping Camaraderie (sorry oppo!). It was more for flavor anyway.

Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44
(Small Base)

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Soresu Style [When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: This character can move 6 extra squares on its turn as part of its move]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Soresu Style, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



PT
===============================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:32 am

Darn it! PT.
==============================
TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:16 pm

Bump for Deri or Les
===================================
fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:49 pm

PT
============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:09 pm

Happy with the latest PT, but before we go any further, Deri can you see if what we have now even fits in the card?
================================
Example of card

==========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:08 am

OK - so it fits, but it's tight.

Another thought I had was this, add MotF 2. That will take up no more room on the card, it goes undefined.

She needs just a little extra oomph, and that would helps her lead the jedi charge into battle, soaking up plenty of non-Melee hits
=================================
TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:36 pm

So - here's a thought to save room.

Instead of Soresu Style - what about evade?

They are virtually the same in every aspect. Am I not thinking of something significant?

That way it can go undefined, and it makes it not so cramped.

Still want to add MotF 2

=============================


TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:23 pm

Added evade and MotF 2, took off Soresu. CE gives Evade instead
Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44
(Small Base)

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack.
Evade. Master of the Force 2

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: This character can move 6 extra squares on its turn as part of its move]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Evade, Lightsaber Assault and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



PT
====================================
urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:38 pm

Cool. PT.
====================================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:22 am

Kind of hard to check everything, but on a quick scan, we have only left Evade undefined on Epic Boba, and Jango Assassin (mainly due to the inefficient original Saber Dart wording). Soresu fits, even though it's tight, and seems like better flavor for a bunch of Jedi.

On the other hand, Evade might make the Jedi Instructor barely playable. :)

Earlier, it seemed like you were trying to avoid her being a super-evader. Change of heart?

Just bringing it up so Mettle gets a good look in the next batch of PTs. If something has to go, MotF seems much more useful to her overall than Mettle.
=============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:37 pm

Yes, it was a change of heart. She needs to be a little better, and more encouragement to have her lead the charge (so to speak) the better.

MotF 2 + Mettle defintiely needs to be looked at closely in PTs, but I still can't imagine it becoming broken (or even tier 1)

We were also talking about evade left undefined on 1 (or more) other characters from this set. Qui-gon?

Ultimately I don't care too much (soresu/evade). That card looked stacked, and it seemed like a simple solution.
==================================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:29 pm

So I don't know if this helps or not, but the following yields almost the exact same list of beneficiaries:

Quote:
Quote:
Unique Republic allies with a light saber and a printed Attack value of 13 or less who do not have either Double Attack or Twin Attack...



I just don't know what can be done to make her more useful. We always wanted the list of recipients to be crappy, but it's hard to find something that will be useful to all. Still thinking about this.
====================================


TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:28 pm

We could also separate it out.

Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber who do not have Twin Attack gain double attack (no need to worry about triple, quadruple)

Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber who do not have (blank) gain Soresu Style.

Etc.
==========================
urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:43 pm

Yeah, that could work (giving something the ones we wouldn't want to boost already have).
================================

swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:03 am

That seems like a tighter way to scope it.
===============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:23 am
Quote:
swinefeld wrote:
That seems like a tighter way to scope it.



Also takes up more room in the end. Hmmmmm
============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:52 pm

87 Republic Uniques with a lightsaber (+ a few in this set).

55 of those under Yaddle's cost

51 of those without twin

16 of those without double (the set we already had).

. . .

Unique Republic Allies with a Lighsaber under Yaddle's cost = (URAw/LSuYC)

41 Without Force renewal

37 of those without LS defense (really liking this subset)

. . .


. . .
URAw/LSuYC without twin attack or double attack gain LS assault and evade
URAw/LSuYC without force renewal gain force renewal 1 and mettle

I know that's a huge block - but it separates it out better. Characters like Foul would get renewal and Mettle, but not evade or LS assault.

Changing Soresu to evade will hopefully give us room.

Thoughts?
==============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:38 pm

Unique Republic allies under this character's cost with a lightsaber who do not have Twin Attack or Double Attack gain Lightsaber Assault and Evade

Unique Republic allies under this character's cost with a lightsaber who do not have
Force Renewal gain Force Renewal 1 and Mettle
=============================

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the minds of the design team - Yaddle, Jedi Master
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:33 am 
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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:45 pm

Even just 1 of those 2 is longer, much less both. Scrap the latest stuff and go back to what we had.

The other problem to worry about is disruptive/distraction/abm. That absoultely kills anything about this idea.

Choices - Disciplined Leader, or have the CE give all this out for the rest of the skirmish
============================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:12 pm

It has to be for the rest of the skirmish, otherwise Force Sacrifice will never be used.

Disciplined Leader isn't a bad option, although I'd almost rather she gave out something like Squad Discipline.
=================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:15 pm

Oh yeah. (sigh)

I'm fine with rest of the skirmish, I seem to remember that Swinefeld hates it though.

Squad discipline would only work if they all counted as the same name, and adding the Gree CE to the card is just not doable.
===========================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:17 pm

Back to this one - making it for the rest of the skirmish. Also tacking on Master Speed. Just trying to make these guys playable.
Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44
(Small Base)

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack.
Evade. Master of the Force 2

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: This character can move 6 extra squares on its turn as part of its move]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Evade, Lightsaber Assault, Master Speed and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



PT
============================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:38 pm

PT.
=======================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:56 am

Might as well make this last suggestion before a PT comes in:

Since it seems like Shien Style is not happening on Obi/Ani, I think it would be a good fit here instead of Evade or Soresu. Might give them what they need to be playable.
=============================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:27 am

Quote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Might as well make this last suggestion before a PT comes in:

Since it seems like Shien Style is not happening on Obi/Ani, I think it would be a good fit here instead of Evade or Soresu. Might give them what they need to be playable.



I like this suggestion a lot. Took me a minute to wrap my head around it, but I think it would be a good fit and make things quite interesting.
===================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:48 am

This time with Shien Style
Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44
(Small Base)

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack.
Master of the Force 2.

Mettle [If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result]

Shien Style [When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: This character can move 6 extra squares on its turn as part of its move]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Lightsaber Assault, Master Speed and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



PT
====================================

urbanshmi2 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:58 am

PT.

==================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:33 am

I like the change to Shien style, but I think mettle + Motf2 might be too much now.

Thinking of dropping mettle
==================================

fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:13 pm
e.

She can get it anyway from Sprit-gon
===============================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:26 pm

Quote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
yeah, drop mettle.

She can get it anyway from Sprit-gon



I hate that damn piece.
=================================

TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:42 pm


Quote:
Quote:
13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master
Republic
Cost 44
(Small Base)

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack.

Shien Style [When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2. Master of the Force 2.

*Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: This character can move 6 extra squares on its turn as part of its move]

*Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4 and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber, without Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Lightsaber Assault, Master Speed and Force Renewal 1.

"She embraced, and, eventually achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



Done
==============================

fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:48 pm

done
=====================

urbanshmi2 Online
Post subject: Re: 13. Yaddle, Jedi MasterPostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:39 pm

Done.
================


Rest QC of card images

_________________
Really???....... DRINK


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