logo

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:49 am 
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:17 am
Posts: 2931
LESHIPPY wrote:
Here is my thought on Epics.

How many characters are really deserving of an Epic piece? This was discussed going into the second Epic set and thus why it is only six characters. I should not have to look an Epic character up on Wookiepedia to know who it is.

So of the list posted,
Jango, Han, Obi, maybe Kyle.

Personally I think you have to have screen time to be an Epic, but that is just me.

Since it is being talked about for Gencon 14 I really think we are already too late to get a set list, stats, playtesting and sent to the printer. We are already struggling to playtest the main and subset anyway. That is why we are cutting the number of characters. Adding Epics sort of is going in the wrong direction IMO.

I know there are fanboys for every character if you asked them the character they hold near and dear to their heart would have and Epic version. Being brutally honest I think this project would be a waste of time.



This post is what is the step in the wrong direction. It is discouraging to others. The very first post in this thread from Scott said that this would be an online only project and stated that it was financially unfeasible. If its a PDF format then there should be no reason we cant explore this and make whoever we want (screen time or not).

If you don't like it, then don't play it or participate. Its wrong to come on here and tell people that its a waste of their time to explore formats they enjoy in a game that is nothing more than a hobby.

_________________
"But one thing I have learned in this process is that flavor can't override the good of the game."
-urbanshmi2-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:08 pm 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:01 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Chicago, IL
swinefeld wrote:
I've said it elsewhere... good project for a PDF only release with no hard timetable for completion.


+1


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:59 pm 
Major Tierce
Major Tierce

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3163
there is some ideas being thrown around currently.

_________________
When I left you I was but the learner . . . now I am the master.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:04 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 5934
Quote:
This post is what is the step in the wrong direction. It is discouraging to others. The very first post in this thread from Scott said that this would be an online only project and stated that it was financially unfeasible. If its a PDF format then there should be no reason we cant explore this and make whoever we want (screen time or not).

If you don't like it, then don't play it or participate. Its wrong to come on here and tell people that its a waste of their time to explore formats they enjoy in a game that is nothing more than a hobby.


At the time I my thoughts were that I would be stuck doing the cards. And I use stuck because I hate wasting time on stuff I don't believe in. This fits in that category.

You can say and believe it will all be well and good and believe in it all you want. I just disagree. Sorry if you don't like the points that I make.

Putting aside the fact that I won't be working on the graphics any longer, my view really hasn't changed. There is more then enough for everyone to do with the normal vsets. Play testing has been better this set then others. I don't think that is because people have more time. I feel it is because we have seen what happens when we try to do too much with too little and no one raises a flag to say "hey this might not be the best move"

_________________
Really???....... DRINK


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:19 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3481
As usual, I agree with Les. The fact is we have very limited resources, and I also believe that this isn't something worth spending that time on. Playtesting has been better with Set 8 than other recent sets, but it still hasn't been stellar or anything. The main V-sets should be priority #1 by the V-set team; if we had extra resources and everyone had plenty of time and there were tons of people involved and we could afford to have some focus on a different project, then great, let 'em. But realistically I don't feel that we're at that point.

If you want to make Epics happen, it would be better to use your energy on making the main sets better. It's better to have 1 great product than 2 mediocre products.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:09 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Greenfield,In
see for me i realy like the idea of the Epics, but i personaly dont feel that we need a new set of them twice a year. Maybe at most every year but that is it.

_________________
When Life Gives you Lemons........... Squirt everyone Else in the eyes and steal their fruit.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:24 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 3599
Location: New Jersey
I really enjoy the Epic 500 format, so I'd like to see certain Epic characters made...not just any fanboy favorite. Epic Han, Durge, Dooku, and/or Obiwan? Yes! Epic Wedge or Leia or Veers or Needa? No way. Not all characters deserve an epic rendition. I do not think that a character necessarily has to have movie-lines in order to qualify, by the way...but I do think it needs to play a genuinely significant role in the SW canon.

So yes, at some point I'd like to see more epics. At some point. But if these epics are going to get made, then I think it's absolutely CRITICAL that they get the best, top-priority attention that they can get (both in design and playtesting), because it would be flaming mad if some broken epic piece got through and ruined the whole format. What people need to recognize is that it takes a LOT of work to properly design and test new pieces. If you make them too powerful, you warp and break the game...but if you make them too weak, you might as well not make anything. And it takes a lot of time and effort to get that balance right.

And therefore, since it takes so much time and effort, I think we need to be careful about when we do it. As we all know, we are strapped for playtesters. It has been much better for Set 8, but I'm telling you that we are STILL behind, with several pieces not even being tested yet, and this is even with a reduction in the number of pieces to be tested (54, down from 72). [Honestly, IMHO, even moving down to sets of 54 minis is too much...I think we'd be wiser to do sets of 36 minis instead, but that probably won't happen soon.] Can we afford to add another project onto the community's to-do list? I think not. If we did, which project (V-Set or Epic Set) would get the attention? I wouldn't want to see either project suffer.

I'm very excited to see new Epic pieces...but not at the expense of the V-Sets, and CERTAINLY not at the expense of quality. If we can find a way to make that happen well, then I'm in, and you can count on me for what needs doing.

_________________
"Don't give the tool more credit than the master." --Weeks
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:54 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Greenfield,In
i realy enjoy any of the epic formats myself. For me i dont feel that the pieces have to be from the movies. I feel that iconic pieces from the books would be good also. I can see les's point of view that we should not split our focus, but i also feel that if a set comes out 1 a year with 6 pieces that it would not split the playtesting as much and it would allow for the best of both worlds.

_________________
When Life Gives you Lemons........... Squirt everyone Else in the eyes and steal their fruit.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:24 pm 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:00 pm
Posts: 6547
Location: Southern IL
I think that doing 2 at a time with no specific release date would be fine. Seems like it would be easier to test and ascertain the effects on the "format(s)" that way. Balance out the factions a bit at a time instead of introducing a bunch of stuff all at once.

My take is that they should be crazy good on their own, but shouldn't do TOO much as far as squad boosts (relative to overall faction strength). Out of the 18 we have, 5 are followers, and there are 2-3 CEs that are probably stronger than they need to be (Hoth's very obviously is). Make more followers, and keep CEs toned down to leave more breathing room for what can be brought in from the regular sets.

As to characters, I'm not really a fan of the close similarity between some pieces in the regular game with their Epic versions. Hard to avoid that I suppose, but it's a good reason to explore stuff that probably can't ever be done in the 200pt game.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:27 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Greenfield,In
swinefeld wrote:
I think that doing 2 at a time with no specific release date would be fine. Seems like it would be easier to test and ascertain the effects on the "format(s)" that way. Balance out the factions a bit at a time instead of introducing a bunch of stuff all at once.

My take is that they should be crazy good on their own, but shouldn't do TOO much as far as squad boosts (relative to overall faction strength). Out of the 18 we have, 5 are followers, and there are 2-3 CEs that are probably stronger than they need to be (Hoth's very obviously is). Make more followers, and keep CEs toned down to leave more breathing room for what can be brought in from the regular sets.

As to characters, I'm not really a fan of the close similarity between some pieces in the regular game with their Epic versions. Hard to avoid that I suppose, but it's a good reason to explore stuff that probably can't ever be done in the 200pt game.



I like alot of this.

2 pieces at a time seems like a good idea and i agree about fleshing out the other factions.

for me i acutally would like to see some more Epic Followers. They can can be decent in their own right but utilize whats in the faction

_________________
When Life Gives you Lemons........... Squirt everyone Else in the eyes and steal their fruit.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:37 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Greenfield,In
i am not saying that i do not like the commander epics either. I do. But some of the High point followers are interesting, and in the 500 point epic or, fantastic 4 epic can be fun.

_________________
When Life Gives you Lemons........... Squirt everyone Else in the eyes and steal their fruit.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 12:26 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:23 pm
Posts: 158
I absolutely love Epics, and would like too see them continue. I don't know how much work they are but would it be plausible to every other set replace the mini set with a small set of epics? Even if we only get one or two Epics a year I'll still be happy.

_________________
Image

All that it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Interest in Epics
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:03 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 3599
Location: New Jersey
kamikaze13 wrote:
I absolutely love Epics, and would like too see them continue. I don't know how much work they are but would it be plausible to every other set replace the mini set with a small set of epics? Even if we only get one or two Epics a year I'll still be happy.

I love epics too, but they are a completely different creation than regular minis. The main reason is that the cards are completely different; you cannot fit a run of Epic cards in with a run of regular cards. This will cause problems for the shipping, at the very least. There has been much discussion already about the prohibitive costing of epic sets. I think the best option may be to simply produce the epic cards via PDF and have people print their own.

As I see it, the biggest thing standing in the way of more epic minis is playtesting, not money. We can print our own cards easily enough. What we need is quality development and playtesting so that they help the Epic format, rather than hinder it.

_________________
"Don't give the tool more credit than the master." --Weeks
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights style by Scott Stubblefield