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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:24 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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My two sons plan to attend the regional in Janesville next Saturday, but in order for them to be prepared, I have a few questions: (some or all of them may be dumb, so please bear with me)

(1) Do they simply show up with their SWM collection, or are there restrictions as to which categories or specific miniatures that may be used?

(2) Do they need to bring a game board(s)?

(3) Are the rules of the tournament simply the rules by which the game is played?

(4) How does the tournament work? Is it bracket-style?

(5) Is there an age-limit? They are 13 and 10 years-old.

I really don't know much about this (obviously), so I wish to make sure that we don't show up and are unable to participate as planned due to some reason we haven't anticipated. Any answers/info you can provide would be much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:39 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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They aren't dumb questions at all. The Regional tournaments use what I believe is currently the SWMGPA Floor Rules. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the correct link for the full rules at the moment. Perhaps someone can help me out.

This is a 200 point constructed tournament which means they will build a 200 point squad following normal faction rules. V-set cards (and corresponding proxy mini's) are legal.

In addition to their squad (plus dice, counters, tokens, etc) they will need to bring 1 map from the map lists referenced earlier in this thread. There are 3 lists (A, B and C) legal for this tournament, a total of 18 maps in all.

There is no age limit as long as players are comfortable playing on their own with a solid grasp of the rules. My 8 year old will be playing and while he doesn't understand everything he knows enough.

The tournament format will include approximately 5 Swiss rounds depending on number of players. You get 3 points for a full victory and 2 points for winning on points if the game goes to time (1 hour time limit). You get zero for a loss. At the end of the Swiss rounds the top 4 players will have a play-off to determine the champion.

The gameplay rules are the same with a couple exceptions. 1st, immediately after initiative is determined each round of a game the person who goes first activates only 1 character instead of 2. After that the rest of the round alternates back and forth with each person activating 2 characters per phase (unless they are using a figure that alters activations).
2nd, gambit scoring is in effect. A specific area in the middle of the map is considered gambit and you earn 5 points for each.round in which you have a character that is in gambit at the end of the round. This encourages engagement and contributes to fair play. There are some restrictions on this better explained in the floor rules.

If you have any other questions please ask away!


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:01 pm 
One of The Ones
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I'll bring extra maps - so if anyone doesn't have one they can use one of mine


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:32 pm 
One of The Ones
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floor rules: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default. ... ts&t=10453

Map list: http://www.swmresources.com/downloads/M ... 202013.pdf

Any map from the restricted section (A, B or C) will be legal.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:33 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Any map from the restricted section (A, B or C) will be legal.


Which one?

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:54 pm 
One of The Ones
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Any map from the restricted section (A, B or C) will be legal.


Which one?


They are using all 3.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:15 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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swinefeld wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Any map from the restricted section (A, B or C) will be legal.


Which one?


They are using all 3.


Sigh....

I won't lie, I find this extremely disappointing and very frustrating. That is not how the floor rules were written. It clearly states that one list should be chosen, with one of the three Restricted lists recommended.

Over the years, I've pared down the regulations and restrictions on formats quite a bit, to almost nothing, in fact. There are a myriad of decisions completely up to the TO in almost any format. Regionals and Gencon, however, are the two places where the Floor Rules should be followed explicitly, otherwise what's the point.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:27 pm 
One of The Ones
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Might have been posted in the Bloomilk thread, but I believe they have quite a few newer/younger players coming that only own 1 or 2 maps each spread across the 3 lists, so they wanted to accomodate them.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:30 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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swinefeld wrote:
Might have been posted in the Bloomilk thread, but I believe they have quite a few newer/younger players coming that only own 1 or 2 maps each spread across the 3 lists, so they wanted to accomodate them.



Ok, so??? I still stand by what I said. They can play on the one map they have for that list, not sure why that's an issue. There will/would have been plenty to borrow with just a little bit of effort on the TO's part.

When I want to play Modern Magic, I borrow a deck, I'm not accommodated. The Floor Rules are one of the last bastions of legitimacy held, I can't see brushing them aside at a Regional.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:48 pm 
One of The Ones
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Might have been posted in the Bloomilk thread, but I believe they have quite a few newer/younger players coming that only own 1 or 2 maps each spread across the 3 lists, so they wanted to accomodate them.


Ok, so???


Just stating what I understood the reasoning to be.
If I was going I'd gladly bring my extra maps for people to use.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:49 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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swinefeld wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Might have been posted in the Bloomilk thread, but I believe they have quite a few newer/younger players coming that only own 1 or 2 maps each spread across the 3 lists, so they wanted to accomodate them.


Ok, so???


Just stating what I understood the reasoning to be.
If I was going I'd gladly bring my extra maps for people to use.


Agreed. The remarks following the above quote reiterate that. It should have been taken care of rather than accommodating.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:09 pm 
One of The Ones
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Might have been posted in the Bloomilk thread, but I believe they have quite a few newer/younger players coming that only own 1 or 2 maps each spread across the 3 lists, so they wanted to accomodate them.


Ok, so???


Just stating what I understood the reasoning to be.
If I was going I'd gladly bring my extra maps for people to use.


Agreed. The remarks following the above quote reiterate that. It should have been taken care of rather than accommodating.


Understood. (sorry for quoting you out of context)


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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:21 pm 
One of The Ones
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From what I understand, many players in that area only have 1 map. And among those who only have one map, the one map they have belong to each of the three lists.

Brad, I can understand how you would be personally frustrated with that. But ultimately, it has to be the TO's call. It's not like he's allowing non-restricted maps. He knows the local group, and if people wouldn't play because they only have one map and it's not on the list being used, then I understand that call.

It would be silly to alienate a large section of his local group. He's just running it the same way it will be run at GenCon.

He is making it clear well before the tournament, no one should be surprised.

It's not like he's arbitrarily canceling the final 4 after the tournament has started.


Last edited by TimmerB123 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:25 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Sorry, this is a regional. He has the chance to do that any other time. It is not ultimately a TO's call to go against the Floor Rules, it is his responsibility to make sure everyone can play within them, IE making sure maps are provided etc.

Please, do not call this a Regional if you are not following the Floor Rules as it really illegitimates anything we're trying to do with them.

Final Four rounds are not listed in the Floor Rules, had I even remembered it was a Regional I would have pushed that more though, still I wasn't the head judge at that one.

People should not be accommodated, they should be helped to fit within the rules. Many have stated their willingness to do so.

Sorry, but unfortunately this definitely means I will be out for this...

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:21 pm 
Death Star Designers
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Might have been posted in the Bloomilk thread, but I believe they have quite a few newer/younger players coming that only own 1 or 2 maps each spread across the 3 lists, so they wanted to accomodate them.



Ok, so??? I still stand by what I said. They can play on the one map they have for that list, not sure why that's an issue. There will/would have been plenty to borrow with just a little bit of effort on the TO's part.

When I want to play Modern Magic, I borrow a deck, I'm not accommodated. The Floor Rules are one of the last bastions of legitimacy held, I can't see brushing them aside at a Regional.


Magic is also a game with millions of players and we have what, like 100 people that play in all of our regionals worldwide? If a group wants to get together and play minis and call it a regional then who are you to tell them not to?

Throw your tantrum somewhere else that isn't a thread trying to get players to come to play minis. If they are actually getting players to still play then awesome. There is no reason to be this negative.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:33 pm 
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I'm just saying we have to maintain some level of legitimacy. These players should be helped, which all of our players are willing to do, they should not be accommodated at the expense of floor rules. Otherwise, why do we have the floor rules, not sure how trying to keep them legitimate is a tantrum.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:54 pm 
Death Star Designers
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You could just say "hey, if you guys don't have the maps you need, lets make sure we have players going to this event that can help cover maps for everyone". Instead, you say things like.

"Sorry, this is a regional."

"I find this extremely disappointing and very frustrating."

"They can play on the one map they have for that list"

Granted, you did say this

"There will/would have been plenty to borrow with just a little bit of effort on the TO's part."

But then quickly followed it with this

"People should not be accommodated, they should be helped to fit within the rules. Many have stated their willingness to do so.

Sorry, but unfortunately this definitely means I will be out for this..."

So yeah, I would call it a tantrum when you, a supposed leader in this community, cut down a smaller regional with young players for how they run an event, when you should just be happy we are still having events at all. Attitudes like yours really upset me. Would you rather them cancel their regional because they don't have the necessary maps to run an event according to the precious floor rules? What does it matter if they use 3 map lists? If they are still playing the game and enjoying it who cares what they use? At gencon sure, be a stickler for how things are run. At gencon there are prizes and a large group of players so keeping generic rules between everyone is important. This event is not gencon so lay off.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:11 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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To be fair, the sorry I have to be out for this comment was basically because I realized I have made a stink about it, not a screw you to Tim. No one wants "that guy" at their event, and unfortunately because I am the floor rules guy, my presence would legitimize the "infraction", can't really do that either.

Sorry that you see it the other way.

Also, not sure why I can't say that I'm frustrated. It's a fair statement.

I also don't see how I was cutting them down. I never said the young players shouldn't play, but they also should be encouraged to play within the rules. This community has always stepped up to do that. I was simply stating that is what needs to happen and pointing out that it goes against the floor rules.

That's what I have to do.

As a player, do I or would I care...not really.

But the other hat says I need to.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:22 pm 
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I'm just saying you'd be better served to offer help rather than point fingers and site rulings. If Wisconsin was anywhere near me I would at least offer up my maps for them to borrow.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Regional Saturday, June 29
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:24 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Weeks wrote:
I'm just saying you'd be better served to offer help rather than point fingers and site rulings. If Wisconsin was anywhere near me I would at least offer up my maps for them to borrow.


I apologize then. I thought I did both, especially if you look at the exchange between Swinefeld and I.

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