Menoth's Fire wrote:
Wouldn't playing more aggressively stop the tactic, too?
If everyone is hiding and sniping, then all you'll be able to do is kill 0-point scrubs.I find that a lot of these stall/turtle tactics fall apart if you play less conservatively and get damage-dealers into their backfield. I have to admit that from watching so many games on vassal and at big tournies, that too many folks (IMO) play this way (conservatively, that is) which, to me anyway, is very boring and not what I think SWM should be. Builds designed for aggressive play will make anyone think twice about hiding-based squads.
This is exactly what I was hinting at. If I play a squad that doesn't have Reinforcements, and my opponent wants to turtle while using his Reinforcements to get cheap gambit, for the most part, I am confident that I can take the battle to them, and end up on top. Besides, if that opponent turtles, once I kill off whatever he has in gambit, then the gambit area becomes mine. As soon as I start moving pieces toward his starting area to get the ones that are hiding, now I effectively block him from being able to get gambit at all, because he now has to get past my big pieces first. So, whatever gambit they gain in the first few rounds gets negated by the rounds that I hold it completely. Certainly, it still takes some good playing to win these types of games, but in my experience, you have to use the Reinforcements to force the opponent to play into your hands, but you CANNOT turtle at the same time. You still have to play aggressively. I never once kept Boba and Aurra hidden more than the first couple of rounds at GenCon.
(Oh, and Bill, I know you weren't talking about me, and I wasn't sure that anybody was, but I thought I would just offer my thoughts and show that it was possible to both use Reinforcements, and do well in a big tournament, without turtling or stalling.)
Sithdragon13 wrote:
Actually, now that i think about it...reinforcements do not scare me at all. Look at the maps that the reinforcement gambit gainers abused (deathstar and mustafar mainly). These maps are very open to this type of abuse. How would you abuse maps like the rancor pit, temple, ruined base, starship, throne room? These maps are balanced enough that you really cannot do this effectively. While most maps have an advantageous side, it isnt AS abusive as it can be in 150.
This is what I was thinking as well. Even you add in Ruined Base and Jedi Temple to the list as it currently sits, I think it is quite a bit tougher to abuse tactics like the Golan Turret. And honestly, the Turret is the only thing that worries me at all with this aspect. It just means that people have to build their squads expecting to face it. Honestly though, in a mirror match, a Han RH and Boba Merc attacking the turret would do 80 damage in a round if they got to go first. That means the turret likely only gains one round of gambit. Same thing against most builds that might include Lord Vader, Thrawn with JH (swap in at end of round 1), Maris Brood, Mara Jade, JWMs. In one of my release tourneys I wiped out a Golan Turret AND an AT-ST in 4 rounds with Maris and Vader Unleashed. So the counters exist, and as long as the maps aren't total shooting galleries (which most of the 200 point maps aren't) then I don't see it being too bad.
Again....some more play-testing is probably needed though.