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 Post subject: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:32 pm 
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If I attach Obi Force Ghost to Han Solo Rebel General and then switch him out for a different Han, what happens to the force ghost?

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:14 am 
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Well here's my take on it. Since they both occur at the start of the scirmish, you should be able to choose which order.
1) attach ghost
Then
2) Versitile Han
Or go
1) Versitile Han
Then
2) Attach ghost.
If you switch out Han first then there is no issue. The issue arrises when you attach obi first. And with that I see 2 options.
Either you lose the ghost unless the other Han has a force point, or obi would get to hop on someone else with a force rating. Personally, I would want the 1st option to take precedence as the whole thing was avoidable. I think that if you made the mistake of attaching the ghost first, then you should also pay the price if your new Han doesn't have a force rating. It was a good question and await the official answer from Scott.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:48 am 
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The problem is that Versatility occurs after set-up so I have already had to choose (during set-up) who the ghost goes onto.

The next part of the question is if I swap Han, can the new Han take mettle as it is an SA he now has from the force ghost or is versatility limited to strictly the abilities on the card.

My assumption would be that you would lose the force ghost no matter what happened as the character he is haunting (han general) is no longer in play, but I wanted to see what others thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:14 am 
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From what you just described, I'm pretty sure Scott's answer will be that ObiGhost is banished. Your opponent gains 8pts, and you end up feeling like a noob. :lol:

Seriously, while Versatility is a very powerful and flexible ability in most situations, it actually hinders your choices if you want to take a force ghost.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:39 am 
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A technicality perhaps, but swapping Han does not "defeat" the previous one.

Based on that, I would think the ghost remains, but is useless (unless it is Yoda or Anakin, who have CEs).

I may be missing something...


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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:49 am 
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And this is why I brought up the question so we can think about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:17 pm 
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As far as I'm aware, Sever Force does not remove a Light Spirit. So the loss of a Force Rating would not create him to be ineligible after a Light Spirit was assigned. The only difference, is that Han would still be able to benefit from Force Renewal (see Sidogram).

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Does this mean that you could swap and say give han smuggler force renewal?

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:36 pm 
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I guess it means the real question is the "new" han the same as the "old" han in game terms?

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Well the ghost says "start of scirmish", while Versitility says "start of scirmish, after set up"
It seems to me that Versitility is limited as to when but the ghost is not. What's to say, you can't attach the ghost after set up. In which case you would still get to choose order.
Regardless the real question in play is if you do attach first, then swap. I don't want to see Han Smuggler be able to get FR. Maybe I'm wrong, as I don't know who thought of Versitility, but that doesn't seem the intent. Could just be that they overlooked the situation with a ghost. IMO, I think the ghost should die and your oppontent gets free pnts to start the match. In other words, don't attach the ghost to Han. That sounds the more simple route to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:05 pm 
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The glossary entry for Light Spirit specifies "During setup", so it would have to happen before Versatility, because that specifies "after setup".

If Sever Force doesn't remove a Light Spirit, then I don't see why Versatility would. Han Rebel General isn't defeated by Versatility, he's just replaced, so it doesn't make any sense for the Light Spirit to be defeated. I don't know of any good reason for it to be re-assigned to a different character or anything like that, so leaving it on the new Han seems to make the most sense to me.

Doing this to give Force Renewal to Han Smuggler would be dumb, though. Really it's dumb to ever replace Han Rebel General for Han Smuggler; you keep the CE so you don't get to count as a follower, but otherwise you just lose a bunch of SAs and stats and don't gain anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Han of Hoth just keeps getting better!

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Weeks wrote:
Han of Hoth just keeps getting better!

It's not like he could've gotten much worse. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand the comparison between Versitility and Sever Force. They are different in so many ways. No Sever Force does not defeat a character, (just like Versitility doesn't) but that's about the only similarities between the 2.
Han Rebel General might not be defeated but he is removed from play.
If the ghost isn't defeated then he would just be hanging around doing nothing, creating a game error, as the ghost can't be hanging around if not attached to anyone.

I don't see why it would switch to the new Han. You attached it to Rebel General and then took Rebel General out of play.

I guess it all comes down to what Jason asked,
Does the new Han count as the old Han.
IMO I don't think it should, but that's not for me to decide.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:43 am 
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The same question could apply to Leia too. If for example after you see your opponets set up you decide you need Force Sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:26 am 
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I really don't understand why it's even a question.

Han Solo Rebel General ≠ Han Solo Smuggler (or any other Han for that matter)

They are different figures.

No you cannot just arbitrarily attach a ghost to a new version.


I think Jake nailed it.


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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:14 pm 
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I can't wait to face a Rebel squad with the new Han and Leia in it, along with multiple Force ghosts, and maybe Tyber and Lobot, too. Setting up is fun! Oooh, and maybe I'll be playing a Yammosk!

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:04 pm 
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greentime wrote:
I can't wait to face a Rebel squad with the new Han and Leia in it, along with multiple Force ghosts, and maybe Tyber and Lobot, too. Setting up is fun! Oooh, and maybe I'll be playing a Yammosk!

Lol. If not a Yammosk, then maybe Pellaeon.

You know this does bring up a good point about how its's even more important to allow sufficient and equal set-up time.


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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Ruling: If a character a Light Spirit, Dark Spirit, or Eternal Sith Spirit is assigned to is replaced via an ability such as Camaderie or a CE such as Pelleon's, the Spirit remains on the board. The assigned character that was brought in does not benefit from Spirit, even if they are considered to be the same personae.

As for my reasoning. The replacement is not defeat. Plain and simple. Camraderie does not work if it did. Pelleaon had set a LOT of the precedents for how Camraderie works, and I'm not interested in changing them. So, they are not defeated, and the effects of one character do not transfer over. And since the conditions of removal are defeat, you are sort of stuck with the Spirits.

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 Post subject: Re: Han Solo Rebel General
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Thanks Scott, that will help keep things simple(r) in the future. :)

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