Good point, obviously we don't want a shooting Sarlacc. What about the concept that it doesn't really attack as much as effect its "territory?" It can still attack, albeit poorly, but when it hits Clamp keeps them in place. If a Jedi/Sith wants to get adjacent and go off, on them they can. Very dangerous to scrubs though.


Time table is draft by the end of the month.

As R5Don4 mentioned, we need a draft by the end of the month. As far as how we get to that draft, here is the thread for discussing that:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15879&start=20

There are two proposals on the table right now. Both involve starting a thread for voting on full stat cards near the middle of the month, followed by revisions during the last half of the month. Differences relate to the timing of the voting, the voting process, etc. More voices in that thread are better, so head over and take a look. I think things have gone great so far, but we should have some guidelines in place for how we pull together a single stat card from everyone's ideas... hopefully before it comes time to make a decision.

In my design, the real threat of this piece is not in its Attack, it's in the Save 11 struggle to get away from it. The 30 Damage potential is close enough to instant death, to represent falling in the pit. Higher Stats, DR whatever to make it more potent all possible tweaks I'm not apposed to. The main thing I'm trying to accomplish is to keep it as simple and easy to understand as possible. 0 Damage is because Clamp gives bonus damage of +10 already.

Back to RotJ with Lando. The Sarlacc was just holding him, when he finally got away he didn't have a gaping head wound like he was hacked in the head by a Gammorean Guard or Darth Vader had just gone off on him. This is the Sarlacc from RotJ, not some video game.

Thus the base of 10 damage and no clamp. If its not subject to CE's like we discussed then 10 damage could be like it just knocking you off your feet, but the real threat is after he has you wrapped up. While I take ideas from what I see in Rotj, I guess I was under the impression that this was just some non unique smaller Sarlac, and that we were saving -Sarlac, The Great Pit of Carcoon- as the epic version. I guess I just always thought as the Sarlac from Rotj as a unique one.

Well a watered down version but I feel workable version. This version I would be comfortable playtesting a couple of times to see how it goes and giving it to someone else to play or try including in some builds.

Scott may yet poo poo on it, but it looks simple enough I could see it being on a Stat card with enough room for flavor text. 7 SA's is a lot by WotC standards and 2 are new, but the Rancor has more.

The abuse with costing them this low in the high 20's low 30's is that in a 200 pt build you could potentially include multiples which could really give squads that can't deal with it fits.

But the point really is if it hits, I want it to hold them there with clamp like the tentacle wrapped around a foot. I don't get the Melee Reach lightsaber sweep non force power, maybe that will be in the RotJ Disney Special Edition.

Reworked it a bit

Sarlacc

Cost 32
HP 150
DF 14
AT 3
DM 0

Melee Attack
Emplacement
Stealth
Savage
Clamp
Advantageous Cover
Sunken: Characters without Flight that enter a square within 2 squares are automatically moved adjacent to this character, Save 11.
Gaping Maw: A character that enters an adjacent square to this character takes 30 Damage, Save 11, characters with Flight save 6.

I don't necessarily think its bad. I just think I prefer my version better.
Here's my thoughts, as so I don't just sound biased.
With a 14 def. and only advantagous cover meaning 22 def in cover and no other way to boost his defensive capabilities with the power output with seps or with Carth and Jaq and others, this thing will go down fast.

Also I think with them getting adjacent involves someone moving within 2, then it just seems like more melee hate (think covert training) and easily avoidable as guns will just take it down. I prefer them getting there by the Sarlac attacking.
My way still has a built in counter like missiles and grenades and flamethrower, which would be good to get people to play that kind of stuff more often cause then they could also deal with GOWK and Zannah

Maybe part of me is biased but I'd prefer to see the Sarlac actually bring the characters to base him than depend on another player.

Jake man, why so quiet today?

We've got two different approaches, and I can respect that.

I have no intention of creating a piece that will be able to compete at the top level heights of shenanigans of what the mid 20's to mid 30's have become.

Advantageous + Stealth along with everything else this thing does or doesn't do is enough for me, to think it's ready to take it for a spin. If anything I think it is too powerful right now and will have to be toned down.

In the end it's a community decision.

As it stands I agree that that Sarlacc would get ripped to shreds by shooters. I don't like just having stealth or a boosted defense. It's in a pit and i think that should be reflected by the Sarlacc pit ability or something similar to make all attackers have to come within 3 squares or "striking distance"
However I like your gaping maw ability so maybe some combination of the what I submitted earlier and your own? It will all come down to voting and the like. But yeah we want people to play these pieces and to have them be somewhat good.

To me the limiting of attack distance just doesn't really fit - Sure it was recessed in the ground, but this thing is massive and getting an appropriate angle to be able to shoot from much farther away wouldn't be all that hard - especially for characters with flight. Basically this things key defense should boil down to placement (that's just my opinion).

Bring on the stat thread and let everyone submit their own design, afterall this "discussion" portion isn't intended to come up with a single set of stats just yet.

Young Sarlacc Pit

HP 150
DF 14
AT 0
DM 0

Melee Attack
Melee Reach 2
Speed 2
Stealth
Savage
Advantageous Cover

Diminished line of sight: If this character has cover, it cannot be targeted by enemies father than 3 squares.

Gaping Maw: A character who starts or ends his turn in adjacent square to this character takes 30 Damage, Save 11. A character may only be affected 1 time per turn.


Just a slightly different version for conversation, he a slighly mobile so he can move in closer. His damage again coming from the Gaping Maw attack, they have to get close to kill and he can move a little to get closer on GMA'ers

That is original, I'll give you that.

What is the Base Size? I think this guy is going to be taking out more of his own team than his opponent's.

Well the reason I've been a little quiter as of late is because I started working 10 hr days, 6 days a week. And then the kids on top of that, I just don't have a lot of time. Whenever I get a few min, I get online and make a response, not as much as I would like to but trying to stay active in the community and this project. I'm actually at work now on break, on my phone.
I never meant some argument, if that's the way it came across. Like you said, just 2 different approaches, no big deal. I've haven't been active in the huntmaster thread cause of no time, so I'm just trying to stay active in the one and I'll vote on both and hopefully have a voice in final stats once that happens. But I must get back to work now.

Med/large base to be honest had not thought about that. And setup away from rest of your squad. I am not sure that it is the right idea just wanted to put something up to maybe spur another thought. It started for me with Diminished line of Sight and kept going from there.

I am jumping in WAY late on the Sarlaac thing but the name "Sarlaac Larva" or "Larval Sarlaac" sound better? Maybe "Juvenile Sarlaac?"

The name is pretty well set in stone as Sarlacc.

That said you can certainly design stats for a Young or Larval Sarlacc as I can't see another sarlacc other than perhaps the great pit of carkoon ever making it to print in the vsets. So really the name Sarlacc is just fine and dandy for any design.

R5Don4,

I like a lot of this proposal. I like the way Sunken and Gaping Maw work together to simulate the grip of the tentacle and slipping back into the pit. I like that it's not a big damage attacker, but it's major threat is immobility and potential damage for being close to it. Also, thanks for pointing out that Clamp has +10 dmg bonus. I had forgotten about that.

My thoughts/suggestions:

* Clarification/changes on movement and placement, as underlined. "Enters" seems ambiguous to me. As I worded it below, the acting character would get to place their character wherever they want adjacent to the Sarlacc. This might entice an enemy to move adjacent to the Sarlacc just to jump over 5 squares or so. (Imagine the tentacle threw them to the other side, I guess.) Alternatives to allowing a character to place their own character would be to say the character is "placed in the nearest square adjacent to this character" or to say "you (meaning the Sarlacc owner) place the character". Also, I moved the damage save to the beginning of their next turn instead of as soon as they get adjacent. Thematically, it gives movement breakers (e.g. Teleport, Tow Cable, Heavy Lift) a chance to pull them away before they take damage.
* Removed Advantageous Cover/Stealth. Added the 'no attacks outside 3 squares' wording to Sunken. Added Melee Reach 3. I just think the piece is not useful if it can be shot up so easily. It's literally a sitting duck. I made it no attacks instead of no targeting. SAs/FPs that target are less common and generally do less damage than the 80+ dmg per turn that you can get from a big shooter.
* Increased attack to 8. Not much threat to major high-def characters, but enough to clear out some fodder more regularly and be a threat to the middle-level support. Remember that even if it hits, there's a 50/50 chance nothing happens anyway - since he only has an effect/damage if Clamp works.
* Changed the name of Gaping Maw to Tentacle and removed the Flight bonus on the save. I like the ability - it's really just a question of what it represents. I just like it better representing a tentacle than the pit.

Cost 32
HP 150
DF 14
AT 8
DM 0

Melee Attack
Emplacement
Savage
Clamp
Melee Reach 3
Sunken: Characters without Flight that move into a square within 2 squares are automatically placed adjacent to this character, Save 11. This character cannot be attacked by enemies more than 3 squares away.
Tentacle: A character that begins its turn adjacent to this character takes 30 Damage, Save 11.


I hope I didn't butcher your creation too much. Let me know what you think.

Like I said before, there are no sacred cows here. Tweak, twist, turn. This is a collaborative process.

The cleaner the better.

My only comment would be that MR3 has no synergy with the rest of the stats.

My 5 cents:

Sarlacc
Cost 50
HP 110
DF 17
AT 10
DM 20

Melee Attack. Triple Attack
Melee Reach 3
Emplacement
Savage
Sunken: Characters without Flight that move into a square within 2 squares are automatically placed adjacent to this character, save 11. This character cannot be attacked by enemies more than 3 squares away.
Stomach Digestion: After defeating an enemy character remove 10 damage from this character, save 6.
_____________________________________________________________
This way it can be boosted by Celeste Morne (costly boost) and Malakilii (sorry if I misspelled the name) and not suck completely. It won't ever be a tier-1 piece, but at least it can dish out some damage before going down (remember damage output crazyness going on) fast.