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 Post subject: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:01 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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If you use Sense the Future against someone running Tactics Broker, does that just mean that your initiative of 1 is now theirs (and you get whatever they rolled)?

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:26 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Tactics Broker will still make you roll a 1, after you switch rolls, thus Sense the Future has no effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:33 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Sithborg wrote:
Tactics Broker will still make you roll a 1, after you switch rolls, thus Sense the Future has no effect.


I can't decide if that dumb, and just dumb luck on MTB's part

or

incredibly masterful rules writing on WotC's part.


Though, it would be fun to run these on the same squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:50 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Sithborg wrote:
Tactics Broker will still make you roll a 1, after you switch rolls, thus Sense the Future has no effect.



Yeah, but would their roll not also become a 1 resulting in a tie? then you would reroll and the tactics broker would not be in effect right?


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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:57 pm 
Major Tierce
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My assumption would be that you would get what your opp rolled and your opp would get a 1? How else would you switch init checks? Because the ghost says after init is determined I assume it means after regular tactician, tactics broker, recon, etc have been resolved.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:55 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Yeah, that's what I would think too. Once your Init result has become a 1 and their roll was a [2-20], you use Sense The Future and switch init results.

I don't envy your job, Scott! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:29 am 
Master of the Order
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Agreed. "After initiative is determined" is the key wording. Tactics broker should not change the result at that point. Sense the Future is not equivalent to Recon/Anticipation.

IMO :)


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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:48 pm 
Master of the Order
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Does Republic really need another trump? They already are the strongest faction. I know a ruling on this should be independent of that, but that really sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:11 pm 
Death Star Designers
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You are only switching the physical roll. All modifiers to it still only apply to you. (Tactician, Tactics Broker)

It does appear that I may need to tweak the wording a bit to be more clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:51 am 
Master of the Order
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Sithborg wrote:
You are only switching the physical roll. All modifiers to it still only apply to you. (Tactician, Tactics Broker)


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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:52 am 
Master of the Order
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
You are only switching the physical roll. All modifiers to it still only apply to you. (Tactician, Tactics Broker)

Thank God!


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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:56 am 
Death Star Designers
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It makes sense. If your opponent has Tactician +4 and rolls a 7 and you roll a 6, if you switch you don't get an 11 and give him a 6, you get a 7 and he winds up with a 10 (6+4). Right? So all Tacticians actually counter Sense the Future pretty well, since you have to roll X lower than them when they have Tactician +X.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:05 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Wow really. Looks like the mtb is even better. Still the best piece I my eyes. I hate that piece.


Last edited by jonnyb815 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:15 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Sithborg wrote:
You are only switching the physical roll. All modifiers to it still only apply to you. (Tactician, Tactics Broker)

It does appear that I may need to tweak the wording a bit to be more clear.

Really Scott now we are adding physical rolls to the rules. Before a roll was a roll even by a sa.

So reserves don't get changed by tactian?


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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:19 pm 
Death Star Designers
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It's always been that way. See "Natural 20". What was rolled and what the result are two different things. I missed something here, sure. And I will be rectifying it, since I know how it was intended to work. Out of the 4 pages of glossary I had to do for just this one set, I would say I didn't do too badly.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:34 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Sithborg wrote:
It's always been that way. See "Natural 20". What was rolled and what the result are two different things. I missed something here, sure. And I will be rectifying it, since I know how it was intended to work. Out of the 4 pages of glossary I had to do for just this one set, I would say I didn't do too badly.



I don't have a problem with how it works. I think qui-Gon is more of a fun piece to pair with a reserves squad anyway.

MTB is such a hard build to run that I don't mind it being immune to dead qui-Gon.

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:30 am 
Master of the Order
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Sithborg wrote:
It's always been that way. See "Natural 20". What was rolled and what the result are two different things. I missed something here, sure. And I will be rectifying it, since I know how it was intended to work. Out of the 4 pages of glossary I had to do for just this one set, I would say I didn't do too badly.

Yeah, quite a monster of a glossary for one set. You've done very well.

I think the way it works makes sense and is balanced.

---
In general, I'd like to see more emphasis on the card text giving enough info to understand how stuff works at a glance. This one would have been clearer if it mentioned that modifiers are applied after the roll switch.

I understand it isn't always possible with complex effects, and space on the card can be an issue, as in this case. Not complaining, just something I think could help lower the learning curve as the game continues to expand. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:55 am 
Death Star Designers
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For the most part, we've done pretty well getting almost everything on the card text. There were a few cases where glossary expansion was necessary (Advanced Door Gimmick).

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 Post subject: Re: Qui-Gon Force Spirit and MTB
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:20 am 
Master of the Order
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Sithborg wrote:
For the most part, we've done pretty well getting almost everything on the card text. There were a few cases where glossary expansion was necessary (Advanced Door Gimmick).


Agreed, and much better than WotC managed with some stuff. I didn't intend to suggest there is a big problem. Just something to keep an eye on. :)


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