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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:03 pm 
Warmaster
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Echo wrote:
What would you name an ability that gives an attack bonus when attacking non-uniques? Basically Bounty Hunter, but the inverse. I can't think of a good name.


Thanks for including me in on this one :) Just sitting here at the office and on the spur of the moment, I'm thinking that would reflect in the case of Mandos that the characters has passed the basic Mando training regiment. This would I would assume mean they can shoot better then the average joe but not really enough to deal with a Jedi or a great marksman.

With that said I guess my first attempt on this one would be Trained or Basic Training Not sure if that was what you were looking for but its an idea.

As far as the part of your post, of course I don't expect to have the same voice as a council member. I haven't earned that right and honestly odds are I never will. Thats cool I get that, and honestly for the most part I mostly agree with the direction the game has taken and really appreciate all the hard work done by the council members.

@FingersandTeeth.. I really don't have a lot to say in response to that long message other then Thank you. Thank you for listening and understanding. :)

To all the other post that just popped up, Im about to head out of the office but I promise to read and respond as soon as I get back :)

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:05 pm 
Death Star Designers
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audrisampson
So with all things considered why would I play Mandos??? Not a good question to have to ask in game where the design team is out to make every faction playable.


Maybe you haven't seen Mandalore the Vindicated, if you have then you know he is the beefiest Disruptive piece in the game (Yes, even more then the Kyle Katarns). He gives you solid damage (at base 30!) and is a minor movement breaker. He packs all this as well as Beskargam for 58 points. That's why he was made.

For years (since KOTOR at least) the Mandalorian faction has been "How many dudes can I fit into the same squad as the Mandalorian Captain?". Even the early V-sets have all been seemingly designed with that in mind. With the new Mandalore and Fenn Shysa out now you can build a squad of the guys you wouldn't normally get to play in a mando squad. Heck MtV can give canderous ordo a free move to setup a triple twin!

Mando's have options. As Deri just said I had to play Bill Hazel first round of the champs with his Mando + Hk-47 squad. I even commented to Graham after I saw it that I didn't want to have to figure out how to play against it lol. I ended up winning but it was really close. If he had the new Mandalore instead of HK I might not have, as Mandalore can kill anything in my squad in one activation. Had Bill won his last round match against Gerry he would of made the top 8, but he lost in a really close game as I recall.

As a Mandalorian fan I do kind of feel your pain. I enjoy playing them, because they are such underdogs in everything. All I can say is keep playing them, because once people start seeing how good they can be you want to be one of the people saying "I told you so"

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:08 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
One reason is because at some point the game becomes so big that designing effectively is a whole hell of a lot of effort and more effort than profitable companies care to invest. SWM exceeded this size long before V sets which, IMO, was why we ended up with such a restrictive meta for the last 2-3 years before WotC canned it.


Solid post, Deri. I especially appreciate the quoted portion above. WotC had one guy designing with 2 people playtesting, and it's clear from the stuff the company produced that they spent very little time playtesting more than a handful of figures. Look at Strafe Attack and Galloping attack as examples. When The Clone Wars came out, you could use R2's Tow Cable with Ani on Stap and Yoda on Kybuck to double the number of attacks the characters could make, but it was errata'ed not long after. I know there were multiple reasons for doing so, but I got the impression Rob and the people who helped him never played those characters with R2. Couple that with the fact the Ewok Hangglider could do the same thing and no one ever really batted an eye about it. They just lacked the resources to do more than test the figures out with the most recent stuff. Heck, even with a Player Committee in place, getting solid, detailed playtest feedback is problematic sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:35 pm 
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It wasn't so much Tow Cable, as it was the Lift/Heavy Lift around the map that was the problem. It just wasn't an issue before Yobuck.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Good post, Deri! Very well articulated.

And Tim: sorry, but won't be using my prize piece slot to make a tongue-in-cheek piece. :P :lol: Instead, it's going to be a piece that I've wanted to see for years.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:52 pm 
Master of the Order
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thereisnotry wrote:
Good post, Deri! Very well articulated.

And Tim: sorry, but won't be using my prize piece slot to make a tongue-in-cheek piece. :P :lol: Instead, it's going to be a piece that I've wanted to see for years.


Senator Jar Jar? :P

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Yep he is going to cost 8 and give bombad gungan to all allies and have disciplined leader :)

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:56 pm 
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urbanjedi wrote:
Yep he is going to cost 8 and give bombad gungan to all allies and have disciplined leader :)


[jumps off bridge]

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Well that was a fun little lunch break. I went home and took a minute to grab my Vset 4 pieces and just really look at the Mando stuff. (Well I figure to be playing Mando a lot next regional season). What was so funny is how bad of an NPE you can put together just in that faction... When you dont just focus on scouts you do have some room for some really obnoxious stuff LOL. So just as a joke here is my NPE squad (yes this is a joke and I might be off on cost since Im doing this from memory)

Mandalore the Vindicated 58
Gha Nackt 12
Lobot 27 (Mouse dump)
Mando guy with Spec. Ops (give evade to Vindicated, and early movement breaker)
Mando Quartermaster x1
Uggies x2
Mando Sabatour x4 (Everyone hates traps used against them)

Map: Cargo Docks.. (It has to be cargo docks since the Atlanta guys love that map sooooo much :lol: )

Yeah its unplayable I just thought it was a funny irony situation since I was saying poor mandos get screwed by NPE's. :D

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:11 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:

@FingersandTeeth.. I really don't have a lot to say in response to that long message other then Thank you. Thank you for listening and understanding. :)



thanks for starting this thread. The only way this game survives is through its community. The only way the community survives is by people staying interested in the game.
People are more likely to stay involved if the game stays balanced and fun. If people feel like they contribute to the effort and design then they are more likely to continue to contribute and keep the game alive.

If the designers are aware of peoples grievances then they can address them in order to make the game more fun experience for everyone.

If the designers ever stop listening and alienate those that play and keep the game alive, the game dies, no doubt. As a result, threads like these are incredibly important.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:22 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
Well that was a fun little lunch break. I went home and took a minute to grab my Vset 4 pieces and just really look at the Mando stuff. (Well I figure to be playing Mando a lot next regional season). What was so funny is how bad of an NPE you can put together just in that faction... When you dont just focus on scouts you do have some room for some really obnoxious stuff LOL. So just as a joke here is my NPE squad (yes this is a joke and I might be off on cost since Im doing this from memory)

Mandalore the Vindicated 58
Gha Nackt 12
Lobot 27 (Mouse dump)
Mando guy with Spec. Ops (give evade to Vindicated, and early movement breaker)
Mando Quartermaster x1
Uggies x2
Mando Sabatour x4 (Everyone hates traps used against them)

Map: Cargo Docks.. (It has to be cargo docks since the Atlanta guys love that map sooooo much :lol: )

Yeah its unplayable I just thought it was a funny irony situation since I was saying poor mandos get screwed by NPE's. :D


Trust me, you won't have many people disagree with you that the Mando Training Sergeant (the character with Covert Ops Training) is an NPE. I certainly think he is. The Clone Trooper with it isn't as bad because he's priced so high he's barely playable, but the Mando Training Sergeant might actually see play.

Also keep in mind that Mandos have both Death Shots and Self Destruct, which many people consider NPEs. They also have a ton of Stealth/Cloaked, which can be pretty annoying. I actually consider Mandos to be one of the most annoying factions in the game, and they have at least their fair share of NPEs.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Yeah I can see myself using the Training Sergent a lot. I love both Parry and Evade and that really gives me a chance to add the other thing I love to Mandos.. HUGE pt cost figs. With the movement breaker included that really can open up some frusterating things from the other side. So yeah I guess this follows the thing of one persons NPE being another players joy. Well I guess I got to say good job to the Vset 4 team on this one and apologize in advance if it causes an NPE for some one.. Now just to figure out how to make a Mandalore Pony..

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Names for Mook-Busting (non-u's or lower cost)
Bully: opposite if Bravado

Opposite of Bounty Hunter:
Cull (weak from strong)-my favorite
Predator
Sociopath (against characters with diplomat)
Wet Work (Melee or adjacent)
Scavenger (Wounded)

Take your pick.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Ooo, I like both "Cull" and "Predator" quite a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Echo wrote:
Ooo, I like both "Cull" and "Predator" quite a bit.


Bully might be a less harsh term as well.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Also could add in Poacher and Unsportsmanlike to complete the hunter terminology.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:18 pm 
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pretty much every Vader should this.

He loved killing peons.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:38 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
pretty much every Vader should this.

He loved killing peons.


Darth Vader, Killer of Younglings 34pts

HP:100
Def: 21
Att: 11
Dam: 20

Melee, Greater Mobile, Double Attack
Strong with the Darkside: This character gains a force point whenever it kills a living character of a lower cost.
Jedi Hunter
Bully: This figure gains +4 attack and +10 damage against a non-unique figure that cost less then this figure.
Cleave
Do Jim So Style

Force 3
Lightsaber Defense
Force Grip
Sith Rage

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:40 pm 
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For the opposite of bounty hunter, how about "Disciplined" or "Combat Discipline"? Since they're listening to their commander and shooting scrubs instead of firing wildly at Boba Fett or Mace.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:47 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
Do Jim So Style



Caught my eye

Darth Jim has a style?!?!?! It must be deadly.

Do Jim Style - any character hit by this figures attack is immediately defeated. Ughnaughts are immune to this ability.

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