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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:50 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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billiv15 wrote:
Not a real suggestion other than just as a talking point.

What about rotating point levels during the tournament. You register 3 full squads. Each round is rotated.

Round 1 100
Round 2 150
Round 3 200
Round 4 100
Round 5 150
Round 6 200

Top 8
Roll off, 1st winning roll chooses point level. Roll off again for map/side.

Just food for thought.


Good grief, if we're going to make it that complicated, why not register nothing but a faction and a list of 50 minis, then each round the players roll ten D20s before the game to see how many points they have to play with (somewhere between 10 and 200). Then you get ten minutes to build a squad.

What I would support, though, is the top eight having the opportunity to change squads. Whatever they play the first day, the top eight counts as a separate tournament and everyone can tinker with their squad or play guess-the-meta and change it wholesale. The amount of metagaming that night would be amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:10 pm 
Hall of Fame
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billiv15 wrote:
Not a real suggestion other than just as a talking point.

What about rotating point levels during the tournament. You register 3 full squads. Each round is rotated.

Round 1 100
Round 2 150
Round 3 200
Round 4 100
Round 5 150
Round 6 200

Top 8
Roll off, 1st winning roll chooses point level. Roll off again for map/side.

Just food for thought.


I ask why not?

I'm not saying that this is what we should or shouldn't do. I'm just saying that if you are going to be the SWM world champion, then shouldnt you be the champion in all pnt levels and not just 200. This would certainly do that.

It's interesting none the less, but I would have to put more thought into it before I make my official vote.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:00 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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Seems to me that Bill's suggestion of the rotating point levels within a single event might be something to try to do with Jedi Challenge at some point.


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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:49 pm 
Death Star Designers
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I just can't take the 3 squad format seriously. Okay, so you triple the prep you have to do. Now, you make matchups even more important. A squad that has a few bad matchups can handle facing it 1/6 times. Now, its 1/2 of it's matches. Repeat 3 times. A squad doesn't have a chance to truly test it's mettle against the field. Playskill will still be involved, but luck becomes more important, both in the game and the matchups.

And don't even start on adding point total into a roll off...

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:30 pm 
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I like the idea of having a 200 point squad that's the champion for that year. It doesn't mean that it's the best squad, since matchups, luck, and everything else are pretty important once it gets into the top 8 - but it's nice to have a champion squad for the season, as well as a champion player.


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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:28 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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greentime wrote:
What I would support, though, is the top eight having the opportunity to change squads. Whatever they play the first day, the top eight counts as a separate tournament and everyone can tinker with their squad or play guess-the-meta and change it wholesale. The amount of metagaming that night would be amazing.

This. Would. Be. Awesome!!1!!!!

However, I think there would probably need to be a limit on how many points of your squad could change. You could change one piece, or else up to 25pts (or 50pts?) of your 200pt squad. If you could change your squad entirely (eg, switch from Republic to Seps), then what we'd really have is an 8-person tournament which is in many ways divorced from the Swiss rounds that brought those players to that point. I'd like to see the main squads remain mostly the same, with minor adjustments being made to the overall design of the squads.

It's an intriguing idea, one that we talked about on and off during our hotel conversations at Gencon.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:42 pm 
Death Star Designers
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thereisnotry wrote:
greentime wrote:
What I would support, though, is the top eight having the opportunity to change squads. Whatever they play the first day, the top eight counts as a separate tournament and everyone can tinker with their squad or play guess-the-meta and change it wholesale. The amount of metagaming that night would be amazing.

This. Would. Be. Awesome!!1!!!!

However, I think there would probably need to be a limit on how many points of your squad could change. You could change one piece, or else up to 25pts (or 50pts?) of your 200pt squad. If you could change your squad entirely (eg, switch from Republic to Seps), then what we'd really have is an 8-person tournament which is in many ways divorced from the Swiss rounds that brought those players to that point. I'd like to see the main squads remain mostly the same, with minor adjustments being made to the overall design of the squads.

It's an intriguing idea, one that we talked about on and off during our hotel conversations at Gencon.


In a lot of ways, the top 8 is a seperate tournament. I know in SWCCG, they can change their decks between the 3 days.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:20 am 
Master of the Order
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Rotating point levels during an event is problematic for a lot of different reasons, some of which are mentioned above. Additionally, the way pairings work really screw with the event when you are pairing based on strength of schedule. I may have a really amazing 200 pt. squad, but a sub-par 100 pt. one that lands me against a weaker player in round 3 with a 150 build. So the outcome is maybe I would have won at 200 but end up somewhere around 8th or 9th with the rotation. There are other more frustrating scenarios that I have seen first-hand in rotating point level events, but that's the big one.

Moving on, I think it would be cool to do the regionals at 150. I would like to see other point totals get some love in the organized play arena, not just random side events at GenCon. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:25 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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I can't see a reason to do Regionals at 150, because Regionals are in many ways a practice ground and a preview of the Gencon Championship.

A tournament in which the point values rotate between rounds...now that would be interesting. Just not as the Championship.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:34 am 
Death Star Designers
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Combine everything Scott, Trevor, and Graham have said in this thread and give +1 to that.

200 is way more open and more fun I think than 150. I know some people like 150, and it has its place, but I have little interest in it. Squads are a lot less interesting at lower point levels which in my opinion makes the game less fun, and restricts the meta further.

Doing a crazy format where you change the point value every round and then roll for points in the top 8 sounds like it might be fun, but should not at all be the championship. Scott summed up my thoughts on it really well.

I do really like the idea of being able to change your squad (even change it completely!) after the cut to the top 8, especially if we keep having the Swiss rounds on Friday and the top 8 on Sunday. All day Saturday people will be trying to out-meta their opponent now that they know exactly who they will be playing against in the first round (and if they win that game they will know that it's one of 2 people in the next round), so it will involve more meta analysis. It will give a slight advantage to people that keep a close eye on the meta since who the 7 other players are should effect what you play. If you know that none of the players are really big Rebel players you can probably expect to NOT see Rebels in the top 8. I think all that adds another layer of strategy, and just makes it all more fun and interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:36 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Sithborg wrote:
I just can't take the 3 squad format seriously. Okay, so you triple the prep you have to do. Now, you make matchups even more important. A squad that has a few bad matchups can handle facing it 1/6 times. Now, its 1/2 of it's matches. Repeat 3 times. A squad doesn't have a chance to truly test it's mettle against the field. Playskill will still be involved, but luck becomes more important, both in the game and the matchups.

And don't even start on adding point total into a roll off...


+200


;) I like Bill's idea for some event @ GC, but confused old men like me have enough trouble just play testing one squad. My only advantage at this year's championship tourny, was I knew my squad.

take that away and I'll go back to staring at the pretty colors in the carpet
:?

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:55 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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It also needs to be considered that if the point format was moved back to 150, some V-Set pieces would be rendered extremely difficult if not impossible to use. It could also have some affect on future pieces created. but then again maybe not.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:59 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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I've always been a fan of 200 point squads. The real question is when will the community go ultra-SW-geek and embrace the 1138 point format?

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:28 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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Keep 200. I think there are more than just 4 or 5 squad types that could have won the tournament. In the hands of a skilled player with some luck, probably double that would have had a chance. The limiting factor is that there probably weren't that many squad types that the top players were willing to run.


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