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 Post subject: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:55 am 
Master of the Order
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Everyone's talking about it, so here's the thread for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:05 pm 
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As much as I argued against the change to 200 back when it happened, I think it needs to stay 200. I think that it would slow games down as people would have more analysis paralysis in trying to make the perfect move.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:55 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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I strongly think that moving the Championship to 150pts would be a mistake.

It would restrict the number of viable squads and negate the wide-open meta that we have right now. Any of 4 or 5 squads could've won the Championship this year. Don't think that Mace/GOWK were destined to win from the start, because that's really not true. If Tim's Cad/Arica squad had made the Top 8, he could've easily won it. Same with Naboo Pilots, or Wier's SCs, etc.

As Laura has rightly observed in the other thread, it would require more skill in squadbuilding and less skill in play. That would result in fewer squads that are viable in the top-tier, which would result in more people net-decking those squads. The meta shrinks, while the skill required to win a match decreases.

We've finally got a wide-open meta! Why would anyone want to throw it out now? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:43 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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I am absolutely opposed to changing to a 150 point format, for the same reasons Trevor described. The 150 point meta seems to boil down to Rebels versus GOWK. No thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:49 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
I strongly think that moving the Championship to 150pts would be a mistake.

It would restrict the number of viable squads and negate the wide-open meta that we have right now. Any of 4 or 5 squads could've won the Championship this year. Don't think that Mace/GOWK were destined to win from the start, because that's really not true. If Tim's Cad/Arica squad had made the Top 8, he could've easily won it. Same with Naboo Pilots, or Wier's SCs, etc.

As Laura has rightly observed in the other thread, it would require more skill in squadbuilding and less skill in play. That would result in fewer squads that are viable in the top-tier, which would result in more people net-decking those squads. The meta shrinks, while the skill required to win a match decreases.

We've finally got a wide-open meta! Why would anyone want to throw it out now? :?


While I agree with most of what you said like decreasing the Meta and what not (I also think it should stay 200). I don't believe that the meta is as wide open as you think.
Maybe it's just how you define wide open meta. If you define it as more open than its ever been then yes, it's wide open. I have always defined wide open as any faction can compete at the top level and have a realistic chance at winning the championship and that is just not true right now (nor do I know if it will ever be). Given I have not got to play much with V-4, but I don't believe it gave any T-1 help to the Vong. I've been hearing things about the Mandos with Shysa or The Vindicated but have yet to see if they have T-1 potential.
I can say that I think changing it to 150 will hurt these 2 factions even more.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:36 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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What about 175?


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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:52 pm 
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200 is where we should say IMO. I second everything Graham and Trevor just said.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:15 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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You're right Jake, if "wide open meta" means that every faction can compete at the top, then we don't have that. When I used that term I was referring more to the fact that any of 4 or 5 squads could've easily won it all this year. This is by far the least restricted meta that we've seen in years, if not ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:51 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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thereisnotry wrote:
You're right Jake, if "wide open meta" means that every faction can compete at the top, then we don't have that. When I used that term I was referring more to the fact that any of 4 or 5 squads could've easily won it all this year. This is by far the least restricted meta that we've seen in years, if not ever.


We also know, for a fact, that every faction except the Mandos and Vong are competitive at top-level play. Maybe the Rebels get an asterisk, but that's miles better than it was just a few sets ago. "Every" faction can't quite compete, but a few more good pieces for those lagging factions and we're there. Heck, after all the Mando love in S&V we might be halfway there already.

Take it back down to 150 and I am willing to bet quite a lot that Sith and OR, at least, lapse back into noncompetitive status.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:45 pm 
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I actually disagree that the vong aren't competitive. Eric Larson played Vong at the champs and went 2-2 before dropping to play War at Sea. His two losses were to people in the top 8 (Lou and Gerry) and he beat Matt Spry and his Storm Commandos. Not shabby by a faction that is supposed awful run by a player who admittedly isn't nearly as competitive as he used to be.

As far as Mandos I have no idea if they are competitive, but I think it is inaccurate to say Vong aren't competitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:30 pm 
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urbanjedi wrote:
I actually disagree that the vong aren't competitive. Eric Larson played Vong at the champs and went 2-2 before dropping to play War at Sea. His two losses were to people in the top 8 (Lou and Gerry) and he beat Matt Spry and his Storm Commandos. Not shabby by a faction that is supposed awful run by a player who admittedly isn't nearly as competitive as he used to be.

As far as Mandos I have no idea if they are competitive, but I think it is inaccurate to say Vong aren't competitive.


The Vong are weird one, they can give some T-1 squads a real headache and others they can hang around a little bit. IMO they are missing something that will take them all the way into T-1 status. To me they seem to want to hang around the borderline of T-1. As a Vong player myself I can at least say with some experience that I don't believe the Vong are there yet. Eric might have done well before he dropped but I don't believe he would have had any chance at all of winning it and I also don't believe that he would have made the top 8 if he didn't drop. Maybe I'm wrong. But in my experience from playing the Vong, I don't believe they are quite there yet. (hopefully with V-5...)

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:47 pm 
Major Tierce
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I agree that they probably aren't quite there but at the same time they are competitive. I couldn't begin to predict what would have happened if Eric had stayed in. It would really depend on the matchups and dice. But I still think that the vong can be competitive with the right builds.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:23 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Everyone's talking about it, so here's the thread for it.



Really? Really? I must be sleeping too much because I have not heard anything about this.

In my best Barkley voice. This is terrible, just terrible Kenny...

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:39 pm 
Third Jedi from the Left
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I'll add my voice to the din and say that I think we should stay at 200 as the standard format.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:36 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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LESHIPPY wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Everyone's talking about it, so here's the thread for it.



Really? Really? I must be sleeping too much because I have not heard anything about this.

In my best Barkley voice. This is terrible, just terrible Kenny...


:lol: :lol: that funny Les! +3.4 from me

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:41 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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jonnyb815 wrote:
What about 175?


or maybe 182? :lol:

but really, 200 is the place to stay.
why go back in the game evolution?

150 squads that could include the v-sets? me no likey :oops:
:r2d2: :r2line: :r2d2:

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:08 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Not a real suggestion other than just as a talking point.

What about rotating point levels during the tournament. You register 3 full squads. Each round is rotated.

Round 1 100
Round 2 150
Round 3 200
Round 4 100
Round 5 150
Round 6 200

Top 8
Roll off, 1st winning roll chooses point level. Roll off again for map/side.

Just food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:02 pm 
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urbanjedi wrote:
As much as I argued against the change to 200 back when it happened, I think it needs to stay 200. I think that it would slow games down as people would have more analysis paralysis in trying to make the perfect move.


+1 and there is enough real and perceived AP out there now.

However, I will say that Bill's talking point is most interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:13 pm 
Death Star Designers
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billiv15 wrote:
Not a real suggestion other than just as a talking point.

What about rotating point levels during the tournament. You register 3 full squads. Each round is rotated.

Round 1 100
Round 2 150
Round 3 200
Round 4 100
Round 5 150
Round 6 200

Top 8
Roll off, 1st winning roll chooses point level. Roll off again for map/side.

Just food for thought.


Absolutely not. ESPECIALLY the top 8 option.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the Championship level change from 200 back to 150?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:01 pm 
Death Star Designers
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billiv15 wrote:
Not a real suggestion other than just as a talking point.

What about rotating point levels during the tournament. You register 3 full squads. Each round is rotated.

Round 1 100
Round 2 150
Round 3 200
Round 4 100
Round 5 150
Round 6 200

Top 8
Roll off, 1st winning roll chooses point level. Roll off again for map/side.

Just food for thought.


That sounds like a separate event rather then how to run the championship.

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