logo

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:24 am 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:01 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Chicago, IL
Echo wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Daniel - I wasn't talking to you. Clearly you understand Lobot. Look who I quoted:


I know, but just because you weren't speaking directly to me doesn't mean that I can't disagree with you. ;)


I don't get it. If you disagree with this statement (bold for emphasis):

TimmerB123 wrote:
If you think Lobot's main function (even before Cantina Brawl) is the mouse dump, then you clearly don't understand Lobot.


Then I take this statement back:


TimmerB123 wrote:
Daniel - I wasn't talking to you. Clearly you understand Lobot.


Is a 10 mouse dump useful in some games? Of course! Is it Lobot's main function? Of course not, that's absurd!

I agree with everything Deri wrote, but I'll go back to to the most concise and accurate statement:

thereisnotry wrote:
...oh yeah, that's what we were talking about as Lobot's greatest advantage: flexibility! :D


Exactly!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:33 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 677
Location: Danville IL
Just to play devil's advocate a bit because of the stats Tim gave, Should Lobot be banned. The original ruling body for this game, the DCI usually uses a criteria that if a card is in 60-70% of winning decks odds are it should be banned. Here we have a figure that you don't even have to play a paticular faction like GOWK and seems to be (based on the stats provided by Tim) the most dominant figure of the game. Does it give to much flexibilty now that so many figures are out that interact with it?? I personally have no influence whatsoever on the rules so Im curious about the opinions of ones that do? Also not to be harsh but is the reason that he isnt banned because the powers that be really enjoy being able to "crutch" on him?? Once again just being Devil's Advocate so please don't take this post to personal..

_________________
Winning a tournament always allows doing whatever is within the rules to win. - Billiv15


[===0=]=============>


Sentinel for Life!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:39 am 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:01 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Chicago, IL
audrisampson wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate a bit because of the stats Tim gave, Should Lobot be banned. The original ruling body for this game, the DCI usually uses a criteria that if a card is in 60-70% of winning decks odds are it should be banned. Here we have a figure that you don't even have to play a paticular faction like GOWK and seems to be (based on the stats provided by Tim) the most dominant figure of the game. Does it give to much flexibilty now that so many figures are out that interact with it?? I personally have no influence whatsoever on the rules so Im curious about the opinions of ones that do? Also not to be harsh but is the reason that he isnt banned because the powers that be really enjoy being able to "crutch" on him?? Once again just being Devil's Advocate so please don't take this post to personal..


Interesting point, but we've never banned a figure at all. I didn't crunch the numbers to see the percent that he has been in overall. But by that argument, Mice and Uggies would have to go too. And that would be just silly


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:45 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 677
Location: Danville IL
TimmerB123 wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate a bit because of the stats Tim gave, Should Lobot be banned. The original ruling body for this game, the DCI usually uses a criteria that if a card is in 60-70% of winning decks odds are it should be banned. Here we have a figure that you don't even have to play a paticular faction like GOWK and seems to be (based on the stats provided by Tim) the most dominant figure of the game. Does it give to much flexibilty now that so many figures are out that interact with it?? I personally have no influence whatsoever on the rules so Im curious about the opinions of ones that do? Also not to be harsh but is the reason that he isnt banned because the powers that be really enjoy being able to "crutch" on him?? Once again just being Devil's Advocate so please don't take this post to personal..


Interesting point, but we've never banned a figure at all. I didn't crunch the numbers to see the percent that he has been in overall. But by that argument, Mice and Uggies would have to go too. And that would be just silly


There is a big difference between Mice, uggies and Lobot. For certain factions you absolutely have to have Mice. The Mandos absolutely have to have them and use them as they were intended to compete at higher levels of play. Probably the same with OR, Sith, Rebel, and well anything that isn't Vong, Imperial or Republic. With Uggies well as long as there are doors you need uggies. Both of those are like the Land cards for Magic. You have to have them, and there really is no choice in the matter.

For Lobot however its a choice. You can choose not to use him and from reading your OP that seems to put you at a severe disadvantage from the start of the tournament if many players that you will play are using him. So as soon as you turn in your registration form by the stats provided you are in trouble if you are not packing Lobot.

_________________
Winning a tournament always allows doing whatever is within the rules to win. - Billiv15


[===0=]=============>


Sentinel for Life!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:47 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 3886
TimmerB123 wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate a bit because of the stats Tim gave, Should Lobot be banned. The original ruling body for this game, the DCI usually uses a criteria that if a card is in 60-70% of winning decks odds are it should be banned. Here we have a figure that you don't even have to play a paticular faction like GOWK and seems to be (based on the stats provided by Tim) the most dominant figure of the game. Does it give to much flexibilty now that so many figures are out that interact with it?? I personally have no influence whatsoever on the rules so Im curious about the opinions of ones that do? Also not to be harsh but is the reason that he isnt banned because the powers that be really enjoy being able to "crutch" on him?? Once again just being Devil's Advocate so please don't take this post to personal..


Interesting point, but we've never banned a figure at all. I didn't crunch the numbers to see the percent that he has been in overall. But by that argument, Mice and Uggies would have to go too. And that would be just silly


Your memory is lacking...
The criteria is different for minis than it is for Magic. Lobot is a support piece. I don't see hard evidence of him distorting the game, unlike the one fig that was banned.

_________________
Bloomilk Ambassador


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:53 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3481
TimmerB123 wrote:
Is a 10 mouse dump useful in some games? Of course! Is it Lobot's main function? Of course not, that's absurd!



I guess I would argue that there was a time when it was by far the most common use of him and could be considered his main function. In 2009/2010, if you had replaced Reinforcements on his card with an ability that just said "Bring in 10 Mouse Droids" he would have been played almost as much. Obviously this isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a while, and wasn't 100% true at the time, but during that specific time period it was pretty common. Saying that someone "clearly doesn't understand Lobot" seems pretty strong considering that.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:56 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 3599
Location: New Jersey
@Audri...

Lobot is useful, but he's not dominant. I think that's the distinction we need to make here.

That is, we don't have a situation of "Lobot pwns all these different squads and IS the meta." That's how things originally were with GOWK before we adjusted SSM. In "the GOWK meta" you either played GOWK or you lost, period. GOWK was not only useful, but even dominant.

Lobot is just plain useful. He's tech, and as Daniel said about the Naboo, not all squads benefit from including him. I actually think my Mace/GOWK squad benefitted more by including RC Fi (at FrostyCon) than Lobot (at Gencon), but with the diversity of squads present at Gencon, I had to drop the squad's power to include Lobot's tech. Fi was more powerful, but Lobot was more useful.

If we find a fig that's overly dominant, then we'll need to consider banning it or nerfing it (as we did with GOWK's SSM for a while). I don't think anyone could make a convincing case that Lobot needs the ban-hammer.

_________________
"Don't give the tool more credit than the master." --Weeks
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:57 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3481
Sithborg wrote:
The criteria is different for minis than it is for Magic. Lobot is a support piece. I don't see hard evidence of him distorting the game, unlike the one fig that was banned.



Exactly this. I don't think that Lobot distorts the game so much that you have to either play him or counter him to do well. An interesting thing to see is how many people do well without Lobot compared to how many people did well with him; being the winningest piece doesn't tell us enough considering it's a Fringe piece. Are people doing well because of Lobot or are people who are doing well happen to be including Lobot? If they are only doing well because of Lobot, yeah, I think that would be a problem. But he's just one common tool, and doesn't make or break your competitiveness.

Besides, if we want to reduce the power of Lobot, I would way rather have that done with abilities like Bribery and We Don't Serve Their Kind Here than to just ban him.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:08 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 3886
Echo wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Is a 10 mouse dump useful in some games? Of course! Is it Lobot's main function? Of course not, that's absurd!



I guess I would argue that there was a time when it was by far the most common use of him and could be considered his main function. In 2009/2010, if you had replaced Reinforcements on his card with an ability that just said "Bring in 10 Mouse Droids" he would have been played almost as much. Obviously this isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a while, and wasn't 100% true at the time, but during that specific time period it was pretty common. Saying that someone "clearly doesn't understand Lobot" seems pretty strong considering that.


Yes, at one point it was annoyingly common. Even more than it should've been, since some squads really didn't need it. I did miss having Wuher in my one game vs a IG swarm that did the 10 Mouse Drop.

_________________
Bloomilk Ambassador


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:08 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 677
Location: Danville IL
Sithborg wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate a bit because of the stats Tim gave, Should Lobot be banned. The original ruling body for this game, the DCI usually uses a criteria that if a card is in 60-70% of winning decks odds are it should be banned. Here we have a figure that you don't even have to play a paticular faction like GOWK and seems to be (based on the stats provided by Tim) the most dominant figure of the game. Does it give to much flexibilty now that so many figures are out that interact with it?? I personally have no influence whatsoever on the rules so Im curious about the opinions of ones that do? Also not to be harsh but is the reason that he isnt banned because the powers that be really enjoy being able to "crutch" on him?? Once again just being Devil's Advocate so please don't take this post to personal..


Interesting point, but we've never banned a figure at all. I didn't crunch the numbers to see the percent that he has been in overall. But by that argument, Mice and Uggies would have to go too. And that would be just silly


Your memory is lacking...
The criteria is different for minis than it is for Magic. Lobot is a support piece. I don't see hard evidence of him distorting the game, unlike the one fig that was banned.


Lobot is a support piece that can entirely change a game right from the start. Depending on how efficient you use him you can drastically change the out come of a game. If you use the ten mouse dump as an example that is almost as bad as far as activations as bringing in an entire second squad against someone playing a Gowk/Windu (8 activations). So before the Lobot player has to activate a single decent piece of the squad he can have already out activated you just on the pieces that lobot brings in. Since Lobot is used for more things then just Mice lets use another example.. Player A is playing Nom bombs. Player B sees this and either brings in Treadwell droids, Rakghoul or the Catina guy that does 10 damage within six squares. Now before Lobot did this unless Player B had disruptive, shields, or some kind of DR he was in for a pretty hard battle. Odds are just based on my play experiece that 27 pt "support" piece probably just gave player B the game without much worry.

Just being able to do that to a player in a match I think takes Lobot from just a "support" piece to a clearly dominate piece. Heck the fact that this thread exist clearly shows he is well above a "support" piece.

@Thereisnotry: Notice you lowered the power of your squad so you can add Lobot. That does kinda say something right there. Right now we have the greatest diversity the game has ever seen and does Lobot neutralize that? Does the fact that a Lobot player can pull any piece of tech from any set and hose you with it keep you from trying out new and wild ideas that might have worked had you not had to have that random unusable in any main squad come out and kick your ideas butt because of Lobot?

Im not saying right now its play Lobot or lose like it was in the GOWK era. I think Lobots dominance is more subtle and really the OP and this entire thread is really showing how dominate this figure actually is. Like I said in my first post Im playing devil's advocate a bit, bringing up something a local player brought up to me. However while I dont think that local player was completely right in some areas I do see their point and figured it was worth bringing up to players who are far better then me at this game.

_________________
Winning a tournament always allows doing whatever is within the rules to win. - Billiv15


[===0=]=============>


Sentinel for Life!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:10 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 3599
Location: New Jersey
Echo wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Is a 10 mouse dump useful in some games? Of course! Is it Lobot's main function? Of course not, that's absurd!



I guess I would argue that there was a time when it was by far the most common use of him and could be considered his main function. In 2009/2010, if you had replaced Reinforcements on his card with an ability that just said "Bring in 10 Mouse Droids" he would have been played almost as much. Obviously this isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a while, and wasn't 100% true at the time, but during that specific time period it was pretty common. Saying that someone "clearly doesn't understand Lobot" seems pretty strong considering that.

This is an old discussion, and I don't really want to go into all of it, but I never quite understood the tremendous value of using Gha to take a dump. :lol: hehe

Seriously, with Gha/Lobot/10mice, you've got 12 activations for 39pts. But with 4 fodder (mice/ugs)/Lobot/6 fodder, you've got 11 activations for the same 39pts. Gha buys you one more activation, but only when you bring in the full 10 mice...when you don't take the dump, you're actually losing activations. Gha actually hindered your reinforcement choices in most respects (yes, I'm aware of the R7/GammorBG combo).

Therefore, in my opinion, it was never the Gha dump that was powerful...it was having a tempo control piece (Dodonna/San/Ozzel) and lots of activations in your squad that was powerful.

And yes, I know there are benefits to throwing 10 mice onto the map, but you can do the same thing without Gha (4 mice in the base squad replacing Gha and 6 with Lobot).


Anyway, to keep this post on topic: I think that if people understood Lobot's usefulness only in relation to Gha, then they didn't have a clue about Lobot's purpose. And my observation was that, sadly, many people fell into the trap of including Lobot just for the Gha dump. I'm glad we're getting past that now.

_________________
"Don't give the tool more credit than the master." --Weeks
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:16 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3481
Well it's because maybe 80% of the time you do want the Mouse Droids, but 20% of the time you don't. That's enough that I would call the 10 Mouse Droids the "main purpose" of Lobot, but there is also enough of the time that you don't want the Mouse Droids that it's better to go the Lobot/Gha route instead of just mainlining the Mice. My point is just that it's forgivable to believe that Lobot's "main purpose" was a flexible version of the Mouse Dump, especially with a historical perspective. I'll concede that that historical perspective has two views (one which doesn't agree with the usefulness of Lobot/Gha), but there it is. I don't want to rehash the 2-3 year old discussion either, so I'll leave it at that. :)

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:17 am 
Hall of Fame Member
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:22 pm
Posts: 4982
The only reason that Lobot is always in the best squads is because he's the only fringe reinforcement piece that is worth using (which is a bit bizarre really).

Its not really Lobot, but the reinforcement concept.

Any figure made with fringe reinforcements will be useful so long as the rest of the piece isn't overcosted after the reinforcements (Jabba RS for instance).

Its not something we should do away with. If we do, far more squad builds will fall away and the meta will constrict.

Best path forward is to open fringe reinforcements to more characters down the road (e.g. reinforcements 10 etc).

This game is so deep these days that the flexibility is almost vital for many squads at the top because it restricts their shortcomings and gives them a chance in bad matchups.

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:22 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3481
audrisampson wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate a bit because of the stats Tim gave, Should Lobot be banned. The original ruling body for this game, the DCI usually uses a criteria that if a card is in 60-70% of winning decks odds are it should be banned. Here we have a figure that you don't even have to play a paticular faction like GOWK and seems to be (based on the stats provided by Tim) the most dominant figure of the game. Does it give to much flexibilty now that so many figures are out that interact with it?? I personally have no influence whatsoever on the rules so Im curious about the opinions of ones that do? Also not to be harsh but is the reason that he isnt banned because the powers that be really enjoy being able to "crutch" on him?? Once again just being Devil's Advocate so please don't take this post to personal..


Interesting point, but we've never banned a figure at all. I didn't crunch the numbers to see the percent that he has been in overall. But by that argument, Mice and Uggies would have to go too. And that would be just silly


Your memory is lacking...
The criteria is different for minis than it is for Magic. Lobot is a support piece. I don't see hard evidence of him distorting the game, unlike the one fig that was banned.


Lobot is a support piece that can entirely change a game right from the start. Depending on how efficient you use him you can drastically change the out come of a game. If you use the ten mouse dump as an example that is almost as bad as far as activations as bringing in an entire second squad against someone playing a Gowk/Windu (8 activations). So before the Lobot player has to activate a single decent piece of the squad he can have already out activated you just on the pieces that lobot brings in. Since Lobot is used for more things then just Mice lets use another example.. Player A is playing Nom bombs. Player B sees this and either brings in Treadwell droids, Rakghoul or the Catina guy that does 10 damage within six squares. Now before Lobot did this unless Player B had disruptive, shields, or some kind of DR he was in for a pretty hard battle. Odds are just based on my play experiece that 27 pt "support" piece probably just gave player B the game without much worry.

Just being able to do that to a player in a match I think takes Lobot from just a "support" piece to a clearly dominate piece. Heck the fact that this thread exist clearly shows he is well above a "support" piece.

@Thereisnotry: Notice you lowered the power of your squad so you can add Lobot. That does kinda say something right there. Right now we have the greatest diversity the game has ever seen and does Lobot neutralize that? Does the fact that a Lobot player can pull any piece of tech from any set and hose you with it keep you from trying out new and wild ideas that might have worked had you not had to have that random unusable in any main squad come out and kick your ideas butt because of Lobot?

Im not saying right now its play Lobot or lose like it was in the GOWK era. I think Lobots dominance is more subtle and really the OP and this entire thread is really showing how dominate this figure actually is. Like I said in my first post Im playing devil's advocate a bit, bringing up something a local player brought up to me. However while I dont think that local player was completely right in some areas I do see their point and figured it was worth bringing up to players who are far better then me at this game.


The problem is that there are lots of squads that do well without Lobot, and lots of squads that Lobot doesn't screw up in some way. Some squads DO get boned by him; Nom Bombs is one of them. But I disagree that that makes Lobot too strong, it makes those squads too weak. Can your squad get screwed over by a single Fringe piece that costs under 20 points? If yes, that squad has a major weakness and probably isn't tier 1. Lobot just exacerbates that. It might restrict the tier 1 meta somewhat (you can't play all the squads that get screwed by Lobot!), but whatever, tier 1 is supposed to be somewhat exclusive, that's the point of tiers.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:29 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 677
Location: Danville IL
Echo wrote:
The problem is that there are lots of squads that do well without Lobot, and lots of squads that Lobot doesn't screw up in some way. Some squads DO get boned by him; Nom Bombs is one of them. But I disagree that that makes Lobot too strong, it makes those squads too weak. Can your squad get screwed over by a single Fringe piece that costs under 20 points? If yes, that squad has a major weakness and probably isn't tier 1. Lobot just exacerbates that. It might restrict the tier 1 meta somewhat (you can't play all the squads that get screwed by Lobot!), but whatever, tier 1 is supposed to be somewhat exclusive, that's the point of tiers.


For full disclosure thats where I personally fall on the issue. Now I will admit of having the urge to reach over the table and smack someone when they mouse dump me when Im playing a heavy Melee squad or nothing with Accurate shot but such goes life.

Thanks for discussing this with me and giving me a few really great answers to give the local player.

_________________
Winning a tournament always allows doing whatever is within the rules to win. - Billiv15


[===0=]=============>


Sentinel for Life!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:58 am 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:01 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Chicago, IL
Sithborg wrote:
Your memory is lacking...
The criteria is different for minis than it is for Magic. Lobot is a support piece. I don't see hard evidence of him distorting the game, unlike the one fig that was banned.


What figure was banned? GOWK was adjusted, but that was due to a discrepancy between the card and the glossary. BTW - reminds me I need to start another thread about GOWK going back to how he was last year. First year back to the card text and he wins the world championship. I hate SSM.


Echo wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Is a 10 mouse dump useful in some games? Of course! Is it Lobot's main function? Of course not, that's absurd!



I guess I would argue that there was a time when it was by far the most common use of him and could be considered his main function. In 2009/2010, if you had replaced Reinforcements on his card with an ability that just said "Bring in 10 Mouse Droids" he would have been played almost as much. Obviously this isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a while, and wasn't 100% true at the time, but during that specific time period it was pretty common. Saying that someone "clearly doesn't understand Lobot" seems pretty strong considering that.


I will agree that it was much more common. To my knowledge I was the first to ever use the 10 mouse dump back at the first GenCon 4 round tournament in 2008 (yes you have me to blame). After that I didn't use it often, but Daniel you're right - it was due to the squad types. The two main squads types I used for the next few years were Lancer variants and Thrawn swaps. With lancer (especially single lancer), I already had high activations, and I usually brought in an MTB. With Thrawn it was often swap fodder. The only time I brought in 10 mice was to out-activate, and I rarely had to since activations were already so high. So it's true others used the 10 mouse dump a bunch, but few used it when it was necessary (Daniel, you are one of the few who did).

When running a lancer or Arica (staples for me) a bunch of mice don't get in my way. So I never sweated it.

Echo wrote:
Besides, if we want to reduce the power of Lobot, I would way rather have that done with abilities like Bribery and We Don't Serve Their Kind Here than to just ban him.


Agreed. We Don't serve their kind doesn't do much IMO, but Bribery gives my brain fits


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:00 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3481
TimmerB123 wrote:
Echo wrote:
Besides, if we want to reduce the power of Lobot, I would way rather have that done with abilities like Bribery and We Don't Serve Their Kind Here than to just ban him.


Agreed. We Don't serve their kind doesn't do much IMO, but Bribery gives my brain fits


Yeah, WDSTKH (WHY DID WE GIVE THIS ABILITY SUCH A LONG NAME?!?) isn't very strong. The purpose of Bribery was just to make Reinforcements much more interesting, which I think it does pretty well.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:01 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 3886
He was actually banned briefly after Regionals before they could get the DCI errata.

_________________
Bloomilk Ambassador


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:05 pm 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:01 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Chicago, IL
Sithborg wrote:
He was actually banned briefly after Regionals before they could get the DCI errata.


I don't think I even knew that. So after the last regional and before GenCon he was banned. Was there any significant tournament where he was banned from during that time? If not, then it doesn't count for much.

And side note: GOWK was owned at the Chicago 2009 regionals by:
--Rieekan's Smuggler Cannon--
45 Luke's Snowspeeder
27 Han Solo, Smuggler
20 Princess Leia
14 General Rieekan
9 General Dodonna
8 Juno Eclipse

AND (wait for it) . . .

27 LOBOT!!!

(Yes, you all have me to thank for the Snow Speeder masses that year too!)


Last edited by TimmerB123 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Lobot - most winning figure ever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:06 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3481
TimmerB123 wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
He was actually banned briefly after Regionals before they could get the DCI errata.


I don't think I even knew that. So after the last regional and before GenCon he was banned. Was there any significant tournament where he was banned from during that time? If not, then it doesn't count for much


I'm pretty sure he was actually banned for GenCon that year, actually.... Floor rules have always been updated in the summer and the winter, and it was the summer updated (just before GenCon) that he was banned. I think it was the following winter when he was un-banned and SSM was just neutered.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights style by Scott Stubblefield