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 Post subject: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:14 am
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Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
So.

We've managed to get the internal workings of the Rankings Site going no problems, and we have heaps of results now so people can see how it looks. What I'm keen to do in the next few weeks is get all the Regional Results in there so we can get a nice look at the world rankings (according to the SWMGPA site) prior to this big tournament/extravaganza.

http://swm.shift.net.nz/ or http://swm.trogdor.shift-tech.net/

I've recently put in the New Zealand Tournament results and am working with Trevor (TINT) to get the Vassal Regional results in their too. What I'd like to specifically do is work with the Regional organisers from this year (or whoever is holding all the stats/results) and help get that info in. I'd ideally like to talk them through inputting the info, but if it needs it, I can help get that information in. (Really I'd like to get multiple opinions on how it could be improved too) I'd like either someone from each Regional to contact me (someone who holds all the numbers) or someone to furnish me with a list of who ran them. Or both.

There are some interesting things happening in the rankings now. Firstly, with the NZ Tourney being a National-level tournament and with the soon to be added Vassal Regional, we're starting to see the second level of rankings kick in. Prior to this Hinkbert was holding the #1 spot with a flawless record (8-0, 8 3pt wins) but as none of those recorded results were in a Regional tournament, his ranking ceiling was 200pts. Now, with access to his NZ results, theHutts - albeit with a worse record than Hinkbert - has a new ceiling of 300pts and his recent good form gives him 239pts - currently our #1. (Of course, more Regional results may alter this).

Another thing which has begun to happen is that two scores have begun to depreciate! Both theHutts and myself (kezzamachine) played a game in the first few weeks of the year and this result is now 6 months old! So, slowly over the nnext year, the result will lose its value, slowly changing mine and Graham's ranking points. From August-ish onward, as results age over 6 months, everyone's rankings will begin to drop.

Now that I'm finished with my NZ Tournament duties, I'm gonna start trying to push the SWMGPA a bit more - to get it more useable and more used!



...and all this from the #25 ranked player in the world...

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:13 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Oh man, I didn't even know this was going on. I love the idea of a ranking system, especially because David and I will be higher than Daniel on it.

I'm pretty sure my record this regional season is

5-1 at Owensboro
6-1 at Atlanta
5-2 at Kokomo
5-2 at Charlotte

so 21-6 overall

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:18 pm 
Death Star Designers
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greentime wrote:
Oh man, I didn't even know this was going on. I love the idea of a ranking system, especially because David and I will be higher than Daniel on it.

I'm pretty sure my record this regional season is

5-1 at Owensboro
6-1 at Atlanta
5-2 at Kokomo
5-2 at Charlotte

so 21-6 overall


I follow that up with

4-1 Owensboro
4-2 Atlanta
6-1 Charlotte

14-4. 2-1 vs Graham to boot!

I think the Owensboro Buffet Bet is Daniel's undoing in this. 1-4 at Charlotte saw to that.

Is there anything I can do to help Kez or do I just need to tell Daniel, Spry, and Dennis to give you the info on the tourneys?

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
Well, while your individual records are great, what the system uses is the records of your games; who you played against, score etc.

Your Regional organiser would have (hopefully) recorded your game results. Example:

kezzamachine vs OhMyGOWK 178-34 on Rancor Pit
theHutts vs kezzamachine 205-102 on Cloud City

etc.

When you approach the website, your organiser can setup a tournament and then, once its been approved as a Top Tier tourney (granting it a higher ranking status - lesser tournaments don't need approval), they can go through and first add the players/squads and then the games and results.

(I'm going to be working on talking to the Tourney Software folk about making a magic button that automatically sends the info through)

It will require the person with ALL the results from the Tournament to enter them in. I can talk anyone through this.


If you play individual games, or small tournaments at your LGS, you can easily enter those results in without all this Tournament info! Simply go to the Games tab and enter your results in! Say Greentime, Echo24 and Weeks are all playing each other 1on1 over the course of a night, its easy enough to add those games in 1 at a time and see the instant benefit of beating Daniel. (Sorry Daniel...)

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:29 am 
Death Star Designers
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I hate you guys....

But seriously, I've been meaning to get on this pretty much since the Atlanta regional happened! I still have all the results and pairings and such on my laptop, I just have to sit down and get it done. I'm glad this was posted to help remind me.

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:33 pm 
Master of the Order
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Record this year:
(I know it doesn't help for your ranking)

Capital City Championship: 5-0
Michigan Regional: 6-1
Missouri Regional: 5-0
Chicago Regional: 5-1
Kokomo Regional: 6-1
Wisconsin Regional 6-0
Danville Regional: 2-2

35-5


Last edited by TimmerB123 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:40 pm 
Grand Admiral
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Do you think we can get LowerHuttACon 2012 (held in March 2012) ratified as a major tournament? As a 200-point, 14 player tournament, open to players around the country, it's likely to be New Zealand's second biggest event this year.

As Kezzamachine was unable to participate in Vassal, or in the New Zealand Tournament (as he was judging), it seems fair to be able to give him a chance at the higher rating ceiling.


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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:42 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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TheHutts wrote:
Do you think we can get LowerHuttACon 2012 (held in March 2012) ratified as a major tournament? As a 200-point, 14 player tournament, open to players around the country, it's likely to be New Zealand's second biggest event this year.

As Kezzamachine was unable to participate in Vassal, or in the New Zealand Tournament (as he was judging), it seems fair to be able to give him a chance at the higher rating ceiling.



This is covered under the Floor Rules in the January Update; the only qualification for Sanction is now merely the number of players.

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:54 pm 
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I don't think LowerHuttaCon should be a Top Tier Tournament. I think US Regionals have the status that deserves that top tier rating and I think National-level tournaments do as well. LowerHuttaCon, while being relatively open to others, is really a Save11 thing and while the best players in NZ are currently Save11 players, I think that a dedicated NZ Tournament is right for that.

As for 'sanctioned', that brings about an interesting argument. I've purposefully set two-levels of ranking points, designed to a) keep any ol' soul from winning a handful of games against the guys at his LGS and being #1 in the world and b) encouraging folk to play Regionals or National level tournaments. But, that is just my own way of separating things out.

I've also just realised that, while I've spoken about this lots on Bloomilk, I haven't talked much about the ranking system and how it works here, which I will do so everyone gets an understanding of how it works!

And Hutts, don't worry about me and my inability to get that higher tiered ranking. I was number 1 in NZ for like ever (when no one else knew how to play or had any good pieces! most likely) so I've had my day in the sun. But I will shine again.

Shiny.

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:57 am 
Black Sun Thug
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(in meek voice)

"I went 4-0, and won the title at NW Regional in Portland, OR.; and only my 2nd year playing in a regional."

"2-2 last year, for the curious."

"Oh and I realize that the east coasters can travel much easier than us, therefore meaning, they have a greater chance of facing seasoned gamers, and stiffer competition; but we're dedicated out here"

BOO YAA


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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:03 am 
Hall of Fame Member
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kezzamachine wrote:
And Hutts, don't worry about me and my inability to get that higher tiered ranking. I was number 1 in NZ for like ever (when no one else knew how to play or had any good pieces! most likely) so I've had my day in the sun. But I will shine again.

Shiny.


Yet another proof to the quality of this guy and why the committee made the right decision in selecting him to the Hall of Fame this year.

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:49 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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Just out of curiosity, are the regionals added into this? Seems to me that the list is missing a lot of names and tournaments.


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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:06 pm 
Grand Admiral
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hannahcannon wrote:
Just out of curiosity, are the regionals added into this? Seems to me that the list is missing a lot of names and tournaments.


There aren't really any regionals added yet - that's what Kez is trying to encourage. Just the Vassal Regional, the NZ Nationals, and some local tournaments, as far as I know. You need to ask your Regional organiser to put the results in.


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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Sadly, only one of the Regionals is entered, that being the Vassal Regional. That probably is our fault more than your regional organisers fault (although do hassle your regional organiser to get your results in).

The big issue is that the software is designed to be awesome software (which it is by all accounts) and the rankings page is designed to be an awesome rankings page (which we're getting there), but the two weren't designed together. The info we need to accurately process Rankings is a list of the individual games with the players names (email addresses), the scores of the game (200-57 etc) and the map chosen (as well as all the squads). This information is not currently collected which leaves us with a sort of conundrum.

An example from the Vassal Regional, TINT was able to supply me with all the matchups (taken from the software) but it didn't have the individual scores, so we couldn't award 1pt losses (which is irrelevant for most tournaments, but key for rankings). There was no map information either. Also, the way the info is presented from the software is not as easy to read for this purpose, purely because it wasn't designed for this purpose.

Post GenCon, I'm gonna try see if my people can talk to the software people and we'll make it a simply button click so we don't have to think anymore (I like not thinking). Pre GenCon, it means we have holes in our rankings and a difficult (but by no means impossible) job sorted out rankings from Regionals. I'm also gonna try send a spreadsheet to Ray sometime in the next day or so, so that we can at least get some accurate stats from GenCon for the website.

RECOMMENDATIONS!
Firstly, if you want you results recorded in the rankings, even if they aren't entirely complete (1pt losses for example), hassle your regional organiser. I'm only too happy to help them sort it out - I'll even enter the info if needs be. We'll get this sorted!

Secondly, when you're not playing a major tournament, but it's a serious enough game to warrant a ranking, go to the site and enter it in. That gets you used to the site, its gets more rankings in there (which pushing me further down the rankings... I'm not sure why I'm encouraging you to do this...?) and it makes it easier for us to seamlessly flow into 2013.

Since the rankings are cyclical, any mistakes or slight errors we make now will depreciate away and be replaced with more accurate ones and we will learn in the process. By this time next year, the rankings will be full, complete, and a good indication of just how good folk are stacked against the rest. The site will be hosted on SWMresources, SWminiverse and SHNN will be talking about the Top 10 players in the world pre-GenCon 2013, the kiwis will be planning to invade Chicago, George Lucas will create spin-off animated series featuring characters based on the top minis players of today (and it will also treat Mandalorians the way we know that should be treated) and a guy named Kevin will be the first man on the Moon since the late 70s (and he would have done it by making his own lunar module in his back yard).

When this all comes to pass, you'll be amazed and remember this day.

Wait, what are we talking about again?

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
And thanks, Darth Jim. You are vindicating my decision to replacing at #1 Brian May with you in my "Persons dead or alive I'd want to have dinner with"!

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Hey, Kez, I've been waiting to hear from you about how I should enter the WI Regional games. Can you PM me how?

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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:00 am 
Black Sun Thug
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I really do need to sit down at some point and review your ranking system, but between working nights, the erratic sleep cycle that is a result of that, and the occasional gaming binge, I don't get a lot of time to sit down and look it over. I tried once on an earlier build, but that was a few months ago, and don't fully recall what problems I was having (and that may not matter anyways, since that was months ago)

I'll see about getting an honest look at your pairing system, so I can figure out how to best get this set for the next iteration of my pairing software. After Gencon is done, I should have time to sit down and look this over, and see what my program lacks as far as getting the results needed to enter pairings. I think the biggest issue is that I'm not very active on the forums, and outright difficult to contact if you don't have my email account(s), phone number, or facebook profile. I may have to send you a pm at some point with contact info so that we can find out the best way to proceed with this.

Provided I don't again drop off the face of the forums for another month before then :)


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 Post subject: Re: SWMGPA Rankings: Pre-GenCon!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:23 pm 
Third Jedi from the Left
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Like I said, I was just curious. I only had one good regional showing out of four, so I wouldn't have all that impressive of a spot anyway.


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