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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:19 am 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Many of us (who are posting, at least) are going to be seeing each other face-to-face in about a month. We'll be drinking beers together and playing the game that we all enjoy. It seems to me like this conversation has run its course; both sides have made good points, and it seems to me that the different opinions have been articulated quite clearly.

Perhaps this is a discussion to pick up again after Gencon (map rotation is a promising concept, and perhaps the timing of Floor Rule updates could be something to consider as well), but the interest of keeping things more enjoyable at Gencon, I'd suggest that we put this baby to bed for now. It doesn't seem like anything will be gained by continuing.


Agreed 100%
I'll see you all at Gen Con, I hope there is no bad blood between anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:30 am 
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sthlrd2 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Many of us (who are posting, at least) are going to be seeing each other face-to-face in about a month. We'll be drinking beers together and playing the game that we all enjoy. It seems to me like this conversation has run its course; both sides have made good points, and it seems to me that the different opinions have been articulated quite clearly.

Perhaps this is a discussion to pick up again after Gencon (map rotation is a promising concept, and perhaps the timing of Floor Rule updates could be something to consider as well), but the interest of keeping things more enjoyable at Gencon, I'd suggest that we put this baby to bed for now. It doesn't seem like anything will be gained by continuing.


Agreed 100%
I'll see you all at Gen Con, I hope there is no bad blood between anyone.


Bad blood is for sissies and girls. I don't see any of those here.

Edit: Audrisampson is over 18 :D

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:49 am 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
sthlrd2 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Many of us (who are posting, at least) are going to be seeing each other face-to-face in about a month. We'll be drinking beers together and playing the game that we all enjoy. It seems to me like this conversation has run its course; both sides have made good points, and it seems to me that the different opinions have been articulated quite clearly.

Perhaps this is a discussion to pick up again after Gencon (map rotation is a promising concept, and perhaps the timing of Floor Rule updates could be something to consider as well), but the interest of keeping things more enjoyable at Gencon, I'd suggest that we put this baby to bed for now. It doesn't seem like anything will be gained by continuing.


Agreed 100%
I'll see you all at Gen Con, I hope there is no bad blood between anyone.


Bad blood is for sissies and girls. I don't see any of those here.

Edit: Audrisampson is over 18 :D


Wait a minute, the only bad blood I've got going into GenCon is that I owe both Jake and Tim an ass beating to avenge some ugly losses in the regionals :P Sadly fate decided at Kokomo and Danville that they got to really influence my chances at the regionals with them being 3 out of my 4 losses at those two events..

I will say my thoughts and I know sometimes I come off as a bitch in my post that doesn't mean I don't love and respect everyone that is in this community.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:36 am 
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sthlrd2 wrote:
Wow, I disappear for a weekend to take my wife out (without the kids) in fact I'm still on that weekend now but my wife is busy. I look on here and there is six pages to respond to. I don't think I can remember all the things I wanted to comment on.

According to Boris 'stormin normin' wrote 1 hypothetical player. Well that may be just 1 story but 1 story none then less of how this affected that 1 player (that I also knew). But fine you want more than 1 story, here's 2 more quicker versions of story's of players that some of you may have heard of. Peter and Drew both of whom don't have accounts here on Gamers. Peter attended Kokomo regional (his first in a while) with his map being a borrowed map from Tim. It took a while to convince him to borrow a map in the first place as anyone who knows him also knows he doesn't like to borrow things from people. Well anyways the only maps he owns are Muunilist and Throne Room. He works a lot but was considering trying to get up to gen con at least for Friday and Saturday. He insisted that if he went, he would play with no borrowed pieces or maps. This change in maps made the desicision for him, he is no longer considering going to gen con. I am close to Peter and knows what kind of person he is. He is a familily oriented guy with a dorky passion for Star Wars and Star Trek. He is a guy who works hard but is struggling right now (like a lot of us). This kind of change not only would make him purchase new maps but also try and play on them to get used to them to a certain degree. Audri says that leaves a month to practice on those other maps. Well 1) that's others maps that he doesn't have, and 2) not everyone is fortunate to be able to play every week. Heck sometimes Tim and I arn't able to get together for 3 months to play 1-2 games much less a small tourney with 3-4 rounds every week. That means it leaves Peter maybe 1 game to practice on a new map (doesn't help much at all). And no one should question his love for star wars or the game. Then there is Drew who doesn't play competivily all that often in fact I think his last attended regional was Chicago 2010 (I think) but in that regional he did beat Bill so a decent player none the less. When I told him of these map changes, the only thing he said "right before Gen Con, and that's why I don't play competitively".

There is 2 more real story's (not hypothetical like Boris would say) of players that some of you may know but who don't have accounts on these boards. Just because you play the game doesn't mean they have an account on these boards (do all the great kids who play in the Wisconsin crew have accounts here?) None the less this effects players of all levels and can be the deciding factor on if they attend gen con (like Peter).


So let me get this straight? A decision on whether to attend the single-best 4-day gaming event of the year hinged COMPLETELY on what maps would be legal for the Star Wars Miniatures Championship event? Give me a break. I'd be happy to sell or possibly donate an extra copy of a particular legal map if that's the only hang-up.

Also, since the people you speak of didn't share their stories first hand, I consider it just as "hypothetical" as the other. Yeah they may be real people but there will always be the proverbial disappointed person no matter what decisions are made. If it's not important enough of an issue to come to the message boards and discuss their concerns, then it's just other people bitching on their behalf, and that has no legitimate basis as far as I'm concerned. (I've been guilty of doing that very thing in the past, and learned the hard way why it's irrelevant.)

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:57 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Also, since the people you speak of didn't share their stories first hand, I consider it just as "hypothetical" as the other. Yeah they may be real people but there will always be the proverbial disappointed person no matter what decisions are made. If it's not important enough of an issue to come to the message boards and discuss their concerns, then it's just other people bitching on their behalf, and that has no legitimate basis as far as I'm concerned. (I've been guilty of doing that very thing in the past, and learned the hard way why it's irrelevant.)


I am disappointed in this decision. Me.

Not hypothetical. I am voicing for myself.

This is not about what maps were chosen, or why. This is not about future hypothetical map list rotations. This is the fact that it was done suddenly, without warning, and right before GenCon.

Many people are upset by this - and specifically due to the timing, lack of request for input from the community (THIS time, I don't care what happened in the past) and lack of prior knowledge on most everyone's part.

This pissed off a lot of people.

If the map list had NOT changed July 1st 2012, most people wouldn't have even noticed, much less been upset about it. This is a community run game now, so we should do what's best for the community. Even if Brad's estimate is correct (which I think is not) that it's split about 50/50 - that is how people feel AFTER the fact. That changes things significantly. So something was done to piss off half the community, and had it not been done we wouldn't have this problem.

This was a bad decision for the community. It has divided us when it didn't need to. Nobody would be up in arms that the map list DIDN'T change right before GenCon, but many people are now. What does that tell you? Did we see threads demanding the banning of maps? No. Did we see threads talking about how certain maps are too broken? No. If there had been these things there might have been some ground to stand on, at least to get the conversation going.

The attitude of, "It's already done, deal with it" is absolutely the wrong one to have.

We need to try and figure out if anything can be done to salvage this NOW. It's not about what happens after GenCon.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:16 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:

This was a bad decision for the community. It has divided us when it didn't need to. Nobody would be up in arms that the map list DIDN'T change right before GenCon, but many people are now. What does that tell you? Did we see threads demanding the banning of maps? No. Did we see threads talking about how certain maps are too broken? No. If there had been these things there might have been some ground to stand on, at least to get the conversation going.


Honestly, this comment opens a HUGE can of worms. First off let me debunk the idea that this is a community run game. It isn't, Brad says that himself in the fact that he only consults 6 or so tourny players about floor rules decisions. You don't see the average member getting a choice on what characters appear on a Vset. The average joe player gets a thread they can post in with a list that may or may not be consulted on.

I'm not saying that the "council of few" that for the most part run this game is a bad thing. It probably keeps things much more effiecient and streamlined and keeps the game from swaying back and forth on whims of each persons opinion.

I've thought throne room should have been gone since back in the WOTC days. Before this year I could never quite put my finger on the issue but something always felt "off" about it. Brad told me during the GOWK thing earlier this year that he would post that he needed community input on a decision and that would be the appropriate time to make my feelings known on a paticular subject. So no I wouldn't create a thread saying that Throne room should banned even though I have thought it should have been. This despite the fact that I know and have met most of the Community leaders of the game and feel very comfortable disscussing issues with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:17 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Weeks wrote:
. The large amount of negative feedback should say more about this then anything I can say or type. Simply delaying it two months will make all this go away.


Large amount of what??? Oh, right, because you're so emphatic about it, your side must be the majority. Look back on the posters, it's pretty even by people, the complainers just keep posting. You got a couple that don't like it but haven't thrown their hat in either ring as well..



Yeah, you're wrong. I looked back at the thread and made a list of every person who has posted and given an opinion one way or the other. There have been exactly 5 people who have been in favor of the maps removed and the timing, and exactly 11 people opposed to either the choices, the timing, or both. 3 people have posted and either been on the fence or just didn't post a strong opinion, so I didn't count them (those 3 are Dennis, Jason, and Mike btw), and some people posted but didn't give an opinion at all (like swinefeld's first post), so they weren't counted. This also of course doesn't count the people who are being spoken for by others (the guys Jake and Norman talked about).


The intent of this is to keep everyone honest. I just wanted to make sure that it's clear that based on this thread, nearly 70% of people are upset for some reason that could have been rectified by more prior discussion or more transparency.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Echo wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Weeks wrote:
. The large amount of negative feedback should say more about this then anything I can say or type. Simply delaying it two months will make all this go away.


Large amount of what??? Oh, right, because you're so emphatic about it, your side must be the majority. Look back on the posters, it's pretty even by people, the complainers just keep posting. You got a couple that don't like it but haven't thrown their hat in either ring as well..



Yeah, you're wrong. I looked back at the thread and made a list of every person who has posted and given an opinion one way or the other. There have been exactly 5 people who have been in favor of the maps removed and the timing, and exactly 11 people opposed to either the choices, the timing, or both. 3 people have posted and either been on the fence or just didn't post a strong opinion, so I didn't count them (those 3 are Dennis, Jason, and Mike btw), and some people posted but didn't give an opinion at all (like swinefeld's first post), so they weren't counted. This also of course doesn't count the people who are being spoken for by others (the guys Jake and Norman talked about).


The intent of this is to keep everyone honest. I just wanted to make sure that it's clear that based on this thread, nearly 70% of people are upset for some reason that could have been rectified by more prior discussion or more transparency.


I didn't count the people who just disliked the choices...as that wasn't what my counter point had been about...

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:30 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Weeks wrote:
. The large amount of negative feedback should say more about this then anything I can say or type. Simply delaying it two months will make all this go away.


Large amount of what??? Oh, right, because you're so emphatic about it, your side must be the majority. Look back on the posters, it's pretty even by people, the complainers just keep posting. You got a couple that don't like it but haven't thrown their hat in either ring as well..



Yeah, you're wrong. I looked back at the thread and made a list of every person who has posted and given an opinion one way or the other. There have been exactly 5 people who have been in favor of the maps removed and the timing, and exactly 11 people opposed to either the choices, the timing, or both. 3 people have posted and either been on the fence or just didn't post a strong opinion, so I didn't count them (those 3 are Dennis, Jason, and Mike btw), and some people posted but didn't give an opinion at all (like swinefeld's first post), so they weren't counted. This also of course doesn't count the people who are being spoken for by others (the guys Jake and Norman talked about).


The intent of this is to keep everyone honest. I just wanted to make sure that it's clear that based on this thread, nearly 70% of people are upset for some reason that could have been rectified by more prior discussion or more transparency.


I didn't count the people who just disliked the choices...as that wasn't what my counter point had been about...


Well, that reduces the "against" column to just 7 and keeps the "for" column at 5, so it's more even, but the majority (based on just this thread) is against the timing. The other 4 just stated their displeasure with the choices, which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.

Keep in mind that I did this to keep EVERYONE honest. Saying anything along the lines of there being a "mass exodus" of players because of this or that a huge overwhelming majority is against this is also totally disingenuous now. It's approximately a 58/42 split against the update happening now. I just wanted to put that in perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:32 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
The average joe player gets a thread they can post in with a list that may or may not be consulted on.


Great, where was that thread?

audrisampson wrote:
I'm not saying that the "council of few" that for the most part run this game is a bad thing. It probably keeps things much more effiecient and streamlined and keeps the game from swaying back and forth on whims of each persons opinion.

Agreed.

But doesn't it set off HUGE alarm bells when several prominent members of the community (who may well be considered part of the "council of few") were blindsided by this? I am talking about members of the design team, hall-of-fame members, members of the playtest committee, etc - had NO idea this timing was even being considered, much less having it go into effect. There needs to be some accountability here, some checks and balances that are clearly not in place.


Last edited by TimmerB123 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Echo wrote:

which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.



That's what I've would have thought two days ago but everytime I speak about this and mention that it was brought TO me by a person representing a decent cross section of the community, it's been ignored with a restatement of "Brad made this decision unilaterally".

I agree with a previous assessment someone made that it's really "I'm mad "because I didn't get a say."

So I'm pretty much over it now.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Echo wrote:

Well, that reduces the "against" column to just 7 and keeps the "for" column at 5, so it's more even, but the majority (based on just this thread) is against the timing. The other 4 just stated their displeasure with the choices, which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.

Keep in mind that I did this to keep EVERYONE honest. Saying anything along the lines of there being a "mass exodus" of players because of this or that a huge overwhelming majority is against this is also totally disingenuous now. It's approximately a 58/42 split against the update happening now. I just wanted to put that in perspective.


Fair - but it misses my point. Saying this "only pissed off half of the community" (even if in reality it is slightly more than half) still means it was a bad decision - even if it were less than half. Because this is only how it is viewed after the fact. I would be willing to bet that many of the people that are in favor of the change now were still surprised by it. They would not have been angry because they wouldn't have even considered it until now.

So maybe have a few people that wished the list would change but were not expecting it to - vs - over half of the community really pissed off by this.

That is the core of the issue. Taking a vote afterwards doesn't mean anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:39 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:

which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.



That's what I've would have thought two days ago but everytime I speak about this and mention that it was brought TO me by a person representing a decent cross section of the community, it's been ignored with a restatement of "Brad made this decision unilaterally".

I agree with a previous assessment someone made that it's really "I'm mad "because I didn't get a say."

So I'm pretty much over it now.


I guess it's because to everyone in the "against" column, there was absolutely 0 transparency. It might have been there for that one person your talked to and maybe even the "cross section of the community" that you reference (although a big part of the lack of transparency is that no one has any idea who these people are), but to the majority of people it was a complete surprise.

Transparency means everyone who cares to know what's going on does. That was absolutely not the case. Obviously you knew what was going on, and maybe some other individuals did, but by no means did everyone. I certainly didn't, and it's clear that the other 10 people who posted in opposition to this didn't either. There was no transparency. The fact that someone else brought the idea to you and you didn't make it unilaterally doesn't really change that.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:42 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Echo wrote:

Well, that reduces the "against" column to just 7 and keeps the "for" column at 5, so it's more even, but the majority (based on just this thread) is against the timing. The other 4 just stated their displeasure with the choices, which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.

Keep in mind that I did this to keep EVERYONE honest. Saying anything along the lines of there being a "mass exodus" of players because of this or that a huge overwhelming majority is against this is also totally disingenuous now. It's approximately a 58/42 split against the update happening now. I just wanted to put that in perspective.


Fair - but it misses my point. Saying this "only pissed off half of the community" (even if in reality it is slightly more than half) still means it was a bad decision - even if it were less than half. Because this is only how it is viewed after the fact. I would be willing to bet that many of the people that are in favor of the change now were still surprised by it. They would not have been angry because they wouldn't have even considered it until now.

So maybe have a few people that wished the list would change but were not expecting it to - vs - over half of the community really pissed off by this.

That is the core of the issue. Taking a vote afterwards doesn't mean anything.


No, I understand your point. I think that an action that pisses off 40% of the community, or 30% of the community, or any significant amount at all is probably a bad action that should have been handled differently. I was merely providing data, though. Interpret it as you will, but data can't miss points. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:43 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:

which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.



That's what I've would have thought two days ago but everytime I speak about this and mention that it was brought TO me by a person representing a decent cross section of the community, it's been ignored with a restatement of "Brad made this decision unilaterally".

I agree with a previous assessment someone made that it's really "I'm mad "because I didn't get a say."

So I'm pretty much over it now.


Giving vague statements doesn't help anything. I can see why people aren't satisfied by them. Personally I don't care WHY it was done - I care about what we do to fix it now, how to avoid backlash like this in the future. Transparency beforehand, and during the decision making process is a good step in that direction.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Echo wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:

which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.



That's what I've would have thought two days ago but everytime I speak about this and mention that it was brought TO me by a person representing a decent cross section of the community, it's been ignored with a restatement of "Brad made this decision unilaterally".

I agree with a previous assessment someone made that it's really "I'm mad "because I didn't get a say."

So I'm pretty much over it now.


I guess it's because to everyone in the "against" column, there was absolutely 0 transparency. It might have been there for that one person your talked to and maybe even the "cross section of the community" that you reference (although a big part of the lack of transparency is that no one has any idea who these people are), but to the majority of people it was a complete surprise.

Transparency means everyone who cares to know what's going on does. That was absolutely not the case. Obviously you knew what was going on, and maybe some other individuals did, but by no means did everyone. I certainly didn't, and it's clear that the other 10 people who posted in opposition to this didn't either. There was no transparency. The fact that someone else brought the idea to you and you didn't make it unilaterally doesn't really change that.



Oh well.

People who care to know should ask (as others have done), and not expect me to proffer it. If I have questions I come to the community, this didn't seem to be a question, nor do I consider it to be now, for points previously mentioned always ignored...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Echo wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Echo wrote:

Well, that reduces the "against" column to just 7 and keeps the "for" column at 5, so it's more even, but the majority (based on just this thread) is against the timing. The other 4 just stated their displeasure with the choices, which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.

Keep in mind that I did this to keep EVERYONE honest. Saying anything along the lines of there being a "mass exodus" of players because of this or that a huge overwhelming majority is against this is also totally disingenuous now. It's approximately a 58/42 split against the update happening now. I just wanted to put that in perspective.


Fair - but it misses my point. Saying this "only pissed off half of the community" (even if in reality it is slightly more than half) still means it was a bad decision - even if it were less than half. Because this is only how it is viewed after the fact. I would be willing to bet that many of the people that are in favor of the change now were still surprised by it. They would not have been angry because they wouldn't have even considered it until now.

So maybe have a few people that wished the list would change but were not expecting it to - vs - over half of the community really pissed off by this.

That is the core of the issue. Taking a vote afterwards doesn't mean anything.


No, I understand your point. I think that an action that pisses off 40% of the community, or 30% of the community, or any significant amount at all is probably a bad action that should have been handled differently. I was merely providing data, though. Interpret it as you will, but data can't miss points. :)



OK - I think we're on the same page. Perhaps I should have said that I think many people are still missing my main point


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:45 pm 
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@Tim

One of the huge complaints of the local players that left recently was that the "elites" got to be in the know and do everything in the game, and even worse in their minds entirely shape and determine the rules of the game. While I don't agree with this sentiment there is a slight glimmer of truth. This can create an unfair advantage to those in the know. For example the Vset only tourney, players who have handled all the Vset 4 figs have an advantage over me in figureing out what figures to use in the event. Personally I think they earned that right for their hard work but Im sure we can all see where that might make someone feel they have an unfair advantage.

In this ruling case you and a few others got blindsided the same way everyone else did. Also if I may play devils advocate, why is it ok that the Vset 4 figures are legal for the Vset tournament under the guise of everyone will have all the fig stats in a few weeks and everyone is getting upset that three maps are gone with a few weeks notice. 70+ figs ok.. 3 maps in same amount of time.. bad.

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Last edited by audrisampson on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:46 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:

which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.



That's what I've would have thought two days ago but everytime I speak about this and mention that it was brought TO me by a person representing a decent cross section of the community, it's been ignored with a restatement of "Brad made this decision unilaterally".

I agree with a previous assessment someone made that it's really "I'm mad "because I didn't get a say."

So I'm pretty much over it now.


Giving vague statements doesn't help anything. I can see why people aren't satisfied by them. Personally I don't care WHY it was done - I care about what we do to fix it now, how to avoid backlash like this in the future. Transparency beforehand, and during the decision making process is a good step in that direction.


Sigh...the only thing vague was the names of the people, which given the volatility of this, is not my place to give. Transparency is there, as mentioned above, that ceases to be my problem. Not posting is different from not telling you when asked.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:51 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:

which I still think could have been helped by more transparency, which is what I think this whole discussion is really about.



That's what I've would have thought two days ago but everytime I speak about this and mention that it was brought TO me by a person representing a decent cross section of the community, it's been ignored with a restatement of "Brad made this decision unilaterally".

I agree with a previous assessment someone made that it's really "I'm mad "because I didn't get a say."

So I'm pretty much over it now.


Giving vague statements doesn't help anything. I can see why people aren't satisfied by them. Personally I don't care WHY it was done - I care about what we do to fix it now, how to avoid backlash like this in the future. Transparency beforehand, and during the decision making process is a good step in that direction.


Sigh...the only thing vague was the names of the people, which given the volatility of this, is not my place to give. Transparency is there, as mentioned above, that ceases to be my problem. Not posting is different from not telling you when asked.


I take issue somewhat with this and with your prior post. It isn't the community's responsibility to ask you what you are planning on changing; it's your responsibility to let us know. You being willing to tell us if we ask isn't transparency, making sure everyone is informed beforehand about things like this is transparency.

In the future, I would suggest giving a "preview" of what will be done in the upcoming floor rules change before it is actually in place so any concerns can be voiced beforehand instead of after the fact. This has been done a lot in the past (everyone knew that SSM was going to be changed before it actually was BOTH times it was changed, for example), and makes these things go over better.

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