Weeks wrote:
obikenobi1 wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Obi, I'm curious what proof you have of this "broken Kaan". I say that because of a situation early last month where you made the same claim on the Gray Jedi's dark temptation. Its probably just a misunderstanding of how Kaan is best used and countered.
I've talked with numerous people about Lord Kaan, some of them people who go to regionals. He is poorly designed and undercosted, imo, because he can easily take out his points worth in 1 bomb. 80 damage is a lot, especially for factions with few high hp figures. He is broken when compared to other peices available to the faction. The issues I had with Grey Jedi are resolved and I read the rulling by nickname on when you can use Dark Temptation, and I retract my statement of them being broken (although I still think it is a mistake to have a mini that can do 120dmg by itself at a cost of 30pts). But Lord Kaan is broken. He's too good to pass up for his cost. I can see how Rebels may be able to deal somewhat with Kaan, but you need to have Never Tell me the Odds and disruptive that can surivive long enough, and quite frankly, the Han that has it is almost unplayable in a competitive sense. The one big advantage that the Rebels still hold is that they have Dodonna, so they can still work around the sith positioning Kaan without him affecting your stuff yet. so then you can run away your stuff (hopefully your units within his range are not activated). There are a lot of people like myself that don't like Kaan. He should have cost more points, since I look at not only his stats/powers but also the faction he's in and the movement breaker that Revan introduced. I have no problem with any other sith peice, except for Kaan. He was too much for too little, and we will be seeing him more.
Do you have the same issue with Anakin Solo?
Anakin does pretty much the same thing, and he completely dominated 2 years worth of meta's because of how he could nuke whatever Mara didn't kill. Mara/Ganner/Anakin costs 97, and doesn't care about disruptive. Revan/Kaan/mouse droid (for swapping) costs 101 and gets shut down completely by disruptive. I'd say they are at most even strategies. But the NR is better due to you getting more out of the combo and it being harder to counter.
Ok, I'm glad you brought this up. Sithborg also mentioned this as well. There is a couple of huge differences between Unleash the Force/ Force Push 5 and Thought Bomb. I'll handle Unleash the Force first:
-Unleash the Force requires you to lose an ally with a force rating. Its not an automatic force power like Thought Bomb is, where you can trigger it anytime you want. I know there is a strategy of killing a Felucian with Momaw Nadon, but that still gives your oppnent points. Now people might say "Well doesn't Kaan give you points also when he dies?" And my answer is yes he does. But he will take out more than his points cost in enemy figures. Anakin Solo only has 50 HP. He's easy to kill with anything that is left over. Beleive me, there will be a lot more stuff left over when you are dealing 30dmg/60dmg respectively, than when you are doing 40dmg/80dmg. So you can give you opponent the 23pts for Anakin after he's done his thing and dies. Kaan has better Hitpoints, better Attack and damage output regardless of Thought Bomb, and better defense.
-Another important thing is that Kaan can trigger Thought Bomb immediatly first round. Anakin can't do Unleash the Force right away. He's got renewal for that, and that is something Kaan should have had (Force Renewal 1 with his starting force at 2 at least imo). Also, as far as triggering Thought Bomb is concerned, I'd say its a huge difference when you can also trigger it when he is about to be defeated, than when it only replaces attacks like Unleash the Force is. Come on man! I'd say that a pretty big difference.
-Another
huge difference between Unleash the Force and Thought Bomb is that Though Bomb can't be canceled. Unleash the Force can. I'd say that proves my point pretty well. Force Absorb/Force Defense mean absolutely nothing against Thought Bomb. And that is a big problem, imo.
Now onto what Sithborg had mentioned about Force Push 5:
-Just like what I had said about Anakin being able to use Unleash the Force, Kyp Durron can't use Force Push 5 right away. Yes you can kill your own stuff to get him his renewal first round, but that again gives points to your opponent right away, and kills your activations. Kaan only kills himself to do his thing, and his doing so can take out a lot of the opponents activations in the process. Force Push 5 will only hit 1 target (or adjacent ones if your opponent lets you). Its a powerful force power, but not as powerful as Thought Bomb.
-Just like I said also about Unleash the Force, you can actually cancel Force Push 5.
You can't cancel Thought Bomb with Force Defense or Absorb.
Nuff said.
-Triggering is also different again. Thoughbomb is when he dies or when he replaces his turn. Force Push 5 is just when he replaces his turn.
Ok, so now that I made my points about the differences, I hope people see that there is really no comparison. Revan is pretty much a mainstay for competitive Sith squads so far (although V-set 4 will change it up a bit from what I've seen in playtesting). So with Revan in most squads, of course some really good options people will include are Atton Jaq Rand and Kaan. Why? Atton is a good shooter and is mobile with overide. Kaan is cheap compared to what he will do. Weeks said a strategy to defeat Though Bomb was to spread your guys out. I have tried this tactic. When I played against a Kaan/Atton Revan swap squad, I spread my guys out in 3 groups. The result. Revan and Kaan hunted down the individual groups. That is why Mando's don't win against Kaan. Hopefully this will change in V-set 4, as I haven't seen most of the peices for the Mando's yet. I have no problems at all facing Force Push 5 or Unleash the Force. At least I can survive it or cancel it. You can levitate Mara in who will do here damage and then die (45pts for your opponent) and then levitate in Anakin who unleashes and then dies (23pts). Or you can just safely lightsaber assault with Revan (or just move 18 squares), Revan swap in Kaan (Revan is safe) and then do Thought Bomb (36pts for your opponent). So in total who comes out on top? I think the logical choice would be the Sith. Its common sense.