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 Post subject: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:09 am 
Warmaster
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Right now I'm looking all over for ideas for this Meta game. Last night I was playtesting and my friend busted this figure out for a laugh and just handed me my head with me playing Mace in Your Face. Mace just couldnt do enough damage to offset the twin attacks coming back at him every time he hit Luke. Also with a 27 defense in cover it would make it extremely difficult for Storm Commandos to hit him in cover during the approach. I think here the hardest part would be for him after he hit the back field since it will take a turn to start the triple twin fun on the Commanders. The Do Jem So Mastery could pretty much even things out against any Melee squad in case of one of many suprises that could happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:41 am 
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Ganner and Mara not much room for anything else which is the real problem with this piece. Without access to evade, he just can't absorb enough damage. It is a real too many eggs in the basket situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:05 am 
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I'm sure it happens in other games too - you can have a fine-tuned meta-squad that holds its own against other competitive squads, then someone pulls out a random piece that destroys it. Same if you're running a Lancer squad, and someone brings a bunch of Chameleon Droids.

Grand Master Luke Skywalker is very strong against other melee pieces, but he's too over-costed to compete consistently against all squads; when you compare him and Windu next to each other, Windu is much more reasonably costed, more in line with actual strong competitive pieces like Mara Jade, Jedi and Lord Vader.


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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:10 am 
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Don't listen to them. GMLS rules and is Meta.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:22 am 
Black Sun Thug
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Were you playing my Mace in the Face, or a GOWK variant? With momentum, it shouldn't be that lopsided. The main thing is (I would think), you have to get to him ASAP, so he doesn't get a bunch of force points and cancel any force powers you have. At that point, yes, you may be trading 30 damage for 50, but GMLS still has to make a save 11 to attack back, which Mace doesn't (riposte). You're a 20 on a 23 with momentum, so you'll almost certainly do 90. That should be survivable (unless he makes all three Djem So saves, which could happen, but is statistically unlikely), and hopefully you can set it up to swap out. And if you roll a critical, that's a total of 160 damage on GMLS in a single activation.

It seems to me that this really should come down to force usage; how you and your opponent choose to spend your points. In the above scenario, for example, you can always make the choice to Riposte a Djem So attack. If he tries to reroll, maybe you can absorb it. If I were the GMLS player, I'd be saving my force points to reroll Djem Sos if possible (because I can't roll an 11 to save my life :lol:), so Mace may not even really need to worry about LS defense. If I'm the Mace player (which of course I am), I'm hoping to be able to use my force points to reroll looking for a critical, which is usually pretty good odds. And as long as GMLS dies at the end of this exchange, I'm totally fine with losing Mace. Not that Mara/Kyle are a walk in the park, but, if the rest of the squad is intact, it should be able to handle them.


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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:27 am 
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To clarify I was playing UrbanShmi's version of Mace in the Face. (I'm trying to learn the squad)

My strategy was to first get to Leia and get rid of her save re-rolls. After I did that Luke was able to engage me first with two shots and base Windu to stop the Momentum bonus. Next was 40 damage on Windu. Next turn he wins iniative and puts lethal damage on Windu. I returned the favor on a reposte to put some damage on him but it wasn't enough damage to give Skywalker a chance.

The reason I didnt use the reposte heavily was I was afraid of the double hit back for 30 and 20. Seemed to make a bad situation worse in my head.

GMLS has been a popular piece locally. In most playtest he dies to any shooter squad that can get to his defense but just eats melee squads.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:01 am 
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If he's already bad vs shooters, it'll be even worse vs a Thrawn/Pallaeon squad, when he can't use his LS Defense.

He could do alright vs the various Mace squads, but he's facing nearly an auto-loss vs Imps.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:07 am 
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thereisnotry wrote:
If he's already bad vs shooters, it'll be even worse vs a Thrawn/Pallaeon squad, when he can't use his LS Defense.

He could do alright vs the various Mace squads, but he's facing nearly an auto-loss vs Imps.


Most of the Thrawn squads are now using the Opportunist Thrawn so you would only have Palleon to worry about. I would certainly make him target #1 followed by Thrawn.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:08 am 
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I had been toying around with a Crabby Luke version to see if I could get him to survive a little longer with VCA 6. Have not had a chance to play it yet though.

115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
33 Jacen Solo, Jedi Knight
30 Vergere
22 points filler tech

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:15 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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audrisampson wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
If he's already bad vs shooters, it'll be even worse vs a Thrawn/Pallaeon squad, when he can't use his LS Defense.

He could do alright vs the various Mace squads, but he's facing nearly an auto-loss vs Imps.


Most of the Thrawn squads are now using the Opportunist Thrawn so you would only have Palleon to worry about. I would certainly make him target #1 followed by Thrawn.

I'd probably go after Weir once Pallaeon is dead (removing Twin and Shields is bigger than removing Opportunist), but I hear what you're saying.

The thing is, you'll need to be able to levitate Luke adjacent Pallaeon in order to kill him in one round. If you don't, you'll only be able to do 40dmg to Pallaeon (without a crit), and then for the rest of the round Luke will be facing painful shots from SCs and Weir, and then 4 more shots from a SC to start the next round. He likely won't survive long enough to finish Pallaeon the next round, so he has to kill Mr.P in one activation or he's dead. At least, this is what I'm seeing on paper. If the Imperial player is smart, he'll just keep Pallaeon safely outside of the levitation range, and pepper you with shots until you close in. But by all means, go ahead and play a couple of test games to see if it actually works that way. :)

I'd love to see GMLS be a top-tier piece, but I'm just not sure it's possible at 200. However, that's another situation entirely in the Epic 500pt format.... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:26 am 
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Azavander wrote:
I had been toying around with a Crabby Luke version to see if I could get him to survive a little longer with VCA 6. Have not had a chance to play it yet though.

115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
33 Jacen Solo, Jedi Knight
30 Vergere
22 points filler tech


Awsome idea!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:48 am 
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Thanks, I like the added bonus that Luke gives for renewal to verge (VCA 6, cloacked) and jacen (EoP and Parry) they have some durability and just go around severing force and lightning up pretty rough trio but placement against shoot is for sure key

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:29 pm 
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I'm looking over maps now. I'm leaning toward Rhen Var to try this guy out and maybe slow down the shooters.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:33 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Luke will have some fun options here shortly. Lobacca works really well with him. You don't get locked out while he is on the map and he can absorb a lot of the damage directed at Luke. Force push 1 with renewal is eternally useful as well.

Or Tekli + Cilgal (or however you spell it). Luke takes damage then he runs back and heals for 80! That's more of an epic build though where you can afford it.

There is one other piece that will make Luke a lot better that is coming soon as well.

Currently though my favorite Luke build is

GMLS
Rolan Dyre
R2-C3p0, GH
Yoda FS
R7
Caamasi Noble
x2 uggies.

Rolan puts out good damage and benefits greatly from R2. You get disruptive from R2 and Yoda gives luke the force backup he dearly needs. Luke even gets Mettle, which is, to quote pokemon, "super effective!"

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Azavander wrote:
Thanks, I like the added bonus that Luke gives for renewal to verge (VCA 6, cloacked) and jacen (EoP and Parry) they have some durability and just go around severing force and lightning up pretty rough trio but placement against shoot is for sure key


Vergere does not have VCA6. :oops: That was an data entry error on my part that Shinja has not yet corrected on Bloomilk.

Sorry about that, she'll be harder to keep alive. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:04 pm 
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He's totally a meta piece in Tile Wars, where shooter squads can't spread the board on him and Ganner can lob him into the other player's backfield on turn one. But in standard 200, map size and the importance of activation numbers create some real obstacles for him. He does have some nice matchups within the current meta, though (he's pretty much Mace's worst nightmare).


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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:19 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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buttcabbge wrote:
He's totally a meta piece in Tile Wars, where shooter squads can't spread the board on him and Ganner can lob him into the other player's backfield on turn one. But in standard 200, map size and the importance of activation numbers create some real obstacles for him. He does have some nice matchups within the current meta, though (he's pretty much Mace's worst nightmare).

That's the truth! Here is a VERY fun TW squad:

--L33T Luke--
115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
33 Jacen Solo, Jedi Knight
29 Ganner Rhysode
22 R2-D2 and C-3PO, Galactic Heroes

(199pts. 4 activations)

Jacen has Parry and zapping (even vs Vong), Ganner for that first crucial toss, and R2 for the always-important disruptive. Four acts isn't a lot, but it's enough in TW.

If desired, you could drop Jacen and the Droids for Kyle JBM.
--L337 Luke--
115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
54 Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
29 Ganner Rhysode

(198pts. 3 activations)

Kyle has the Nades and Triple and survivability, but the other option has a BG and effectiveness vs Vong.


Both of these squads are a load of fun to play, and they allow Luke to shine in a format where he's useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:46 pm 
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If you want a Djem So-er to fight Mace, use Vader, Scourge. 40 Dam Djem Sos/Ripostes will out damage him, and not nearly enough of your squad when you lose him.

1 on 1, Luke will kill Mace. The issue is, that the Republic player still has 135 pts vs Luke's 85 pts. It will all depend on how much damage Luke takes. If Mace doesn't crit, Luke should be okay for a bit, but it will be very, very tough.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Mace and GMLS both get ganked by Weir, so if GMLS consistently beats Mace (I think GOWK-Mace would be much, much easier than swap-Mace), you could always just take your chances on the matchups. Here's my take on it:

115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
33 Jacen Solo, Jedi Knight
27 Lobot
22 R2-D2 and C-3PO, Galactic Heroes
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

At first I thought you pretty much had to use Ganner to get the most out of Luke, but that really limits you everywhere else. With this squad you still have the flexibility of Lobot (bring in Dr. Evazan!), Luke gives you maybe sort of a fighting chance against Vong, and to hell with 100% melee squads because they will be hating you. You probably don't even have a prayer against most Weir builds, but them's the breaks.

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 Post subject: Re: Grand Master Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:17 pm 
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greentime wrote:
Mace and GMLS both get ganked by Weir, so if GMLS consistently beats Mace (I think GOWK-Mace would be much, much easier than swap-Mace), you could always just take your chances on the matchups. Here's my take on it:

115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
33 Jacen Solo, Jedi Knight
27 Lobot
22 R2-D2 and C-3PO, Galactic Heroes
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

At first I thought you pretty much had to use Ganner to get the most out of Luke, but that really limits you everywhere else. With this squad you still have the flexibility of Lobot (bring in Dr. Evazan!), Luke gives you maybe sort of a fighting chance against Vong, and to hell with 100% melee squads because they will be hating you. You probably don't even have a prayer against most Weir builds, but them's the breaks.


Vong squad's would still destroy luke, since there damage goes up so high and luke can't LS defense their attacks. And even with Djem So Mastery, its most likely you'll only be doing 40 dmg back against jedi hunters.

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