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 Post subject: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:22 pm 
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--Brutal Swarm--
47 Luke's Landspeeder
27 Lobot
25 Han Solo in Stormtrooper Armor
20 Princess Leia
14 General Rieekan
11 Ithorian Commander
8 Juno Eclipse
6 Mouse Droid x2
36 Rodian Brute x12
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

23 Acts + Lobot.

You can outact anybody. Bring in Wicket and an r4 and you can pound just about anything into the ground. Each brute is at +8 for 20 and can charge 12 squares ignoring cover. With Wicket and r4 going they are at essentially +16. The Landspeeder can zoom up to 22 squares and take a twin as well, followed by a Leia CE shot. up to 16 brutes + Wicket should be enough to handle most big beats you could run into.

Is the Ithorian Commander viable all the sudden?

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:44 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Not if Yobuck or the Lancer start getting played again! :P

But until Yobuck and the Lancer show up, the IC is a superb piece and Han ST swarms will be very powerful (against non-Bastilla, of course).

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Corran Horn and R2-P0 laugh at your puny squad!

But yeah, practically anyone with Jedi Reflexes beats it just by standing around. Disruptive or ABM just ices that cake.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Yeah, don't forget that you pretty much lose to good disruptive. Your brutes charge in and do not much.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Last time I checked, Mace and Weir are ruling the regionals so this might be a decent counter squad to what has been doing well.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:33 pm 
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The problem is that it relies on 2 very squishy pieces to lower the defense of the beat sticks to a more reasonable level. The R4 can hang back, but Wicket has to get in there to be useful and then he can too easily die.

I think Mace's defense with GOWK is just too high, even if you lower it with Wicket and R4, you still need 10s to hit Mace, so you'll hit a little more than half the time, so say 6 out of 12 brutes hit. If this happens at the end of round 2, Mace has the potential to riposte all of those and kill half your brutes. So round 3 you start with fewer brutes, Wicket could go down easily and now you need 14s to kill Mace. Personally, I think it's a little risky. Sure, you may get lucky with the landspeeder hitting too, but I'm just looking at the brutes hitting Mace here, I'm not even taking into account other possibilities. It's a winnable match for the swarm for sure, but it doesn't seem quite strong enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:12 pm 
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If those were Aqualish Assassins rather than Brutes, I'd say you'd be fine. They're +15 for 30, and that's without Wicket and the R4. The thing is, they also cost 133% more than the Brutes do.... :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Im a big fan of the Chadra-Fan Pickpockets. You can get them up to +16 between the Ithorian commander, Gregarious and Opportunist. That way you can actually have a chance to hit a big defense figure.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:01 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
Im a big fan of the Chadra-Fan Pickpockets. You can get them up to +16 between the Ithorian commander, Gregarious and Opportunist. That way you can actually have a chance to hit a big defense figure.

They don't have Melee Attack, so the IC doesn't help them.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:20 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Im a big fan of the Chadra-Fan Pickpockets. You can get them up to +16 between the Ithorian commander, Gregarious and Opportunist. That way you can actually have a chance to hit a big defense figure.

They don't have Melee Attack, so the IC doesn't help them.


Your thinking of the Chandra fan Pilot. The Pickpocket does have melee. Although the Aqualish is better in just about every way for the same points.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Right, ok. Yes, the AA is far better than the CFP. I remember playing AA swarms, back in the day before Yobuck was everywhere...those were the good ole days! :D

I remember Ayy Vida being a fun piece too, doing 50-60 dmg on a cunning attack. There were so many fun options for that squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:41 pm 
Warmaster
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Weeks wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Im a big fan of the Chadra-Fan Pickpockets. You can get them up to +16 between the Ithorian commander, Gregarious and Opportunist. That way you can actually have a chance to hit a big defense figure.

They don't have Melee Attack, so the IC doesn't help them.


Your thinking of the Chandra fan Pilot. The Pickpocket does have melee. Although the Aqualish is better in just about every way for the same points.


How is it better? Yes it has 10 extra hit points but for the most part everyone hits them for 20pts of damage. You also in the case of the AA you get one more defense but your losing the +1 to hit from the CFPP. Id much rather have the +1 attack in a swarm squad since after all I need these things to hit at least once before they die. Now in some cases like a Black Sun squad or something with Swap I totally agree but in this paticular squad's case your losing pct. to hit the target in a squad that is probably far more dependant on that then most.

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:12 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
Weeks wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Im a big fan of the Chadra-Fan Pickpockets. You can get them up to +16 between the Ithorian commander, Gregarious and Opportunist. That way you can actually have a chance to hit a big defense figure.

They don't have Melee Attack, so the IC doesn't help them.


Your thinking of the Chandra fan Pilot. The Pickpocket does have melee. Although the Aqualish is better in just about every way for the same points.


How is it better? Yes it has 10 extra hit points but for the most part everyone hits them for 20pts of damage. You also in the case of the AA you get one more defense but your losing the +1 to hit from the CFPP. Id much rather have the +1 attack in a swarm squad since after all I need these things to hit at least once before they die. Now in some cases like a Black Sun squad or something with Swap I totally agree but in this paticular squad's case your losing pct. to hit the target in a squad that is probably far more dependant on that then most.


One advantage with the extra 10HP is that Momaw Nadon can't just pwn them all in one turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:19 am 
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TheHutts wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Weeks wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Im a big fan of the Chadra-Fan Pickpockets. You can get them up to +16 between the Ithorian commander, Gregarious and Opportunist. That way you can actually have a chance to hit a big defense figure.

They don't have Melee Attack, so the IC doesn't help them.


Your thinking of the Chandra fan Pilot. The Pickpocket does have melee. Although the Aqualish is better in just about every way for the same points.


How is it better? Yes it has 10 extra hit points but for the most part everyone hits them for 20pts of damage. You also in the case of the AA you get one more defense but your losing the +1 to hit from the CFPP. Id much rather have the +1 attack in a swarm squad since after all I need these things to hit at least once before they die. Now in some cases like a Black Sun squad or something with Swap I totally agree but in this paticular squad's case your losing pct. to hit the target in a squad that is probably far more dependant on that then most.


One advantage with the extra 10HP is that Momaw Nadon can't just pwn them all in one turn.


That is true... I should have thought about that with how often I see that fig locally.. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:40 am 
Master of the Order
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audrisampson wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Weeks wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
Im a big fan of the Chadra-Fan Pickpockets. You can get them up to +16 between the Ithorian commander, Gregarious and Opportunist. That way you can actually have a chance to hit a big defense figure.

They don't have Melee Attack, so the IC doesn't help them.


Your thinking of the Chandra fan Pilot. The Pickpocket does have melee. Although the Aqualish is better in just about every way for the same points.


How is it better? Yes it has 10 extra hit points but for the most part everyone hits them for 20pts of damage. You also in the case of the AA you get one more defense but your losing the +1 to hit from the CFPP. Id much rather have the +1 attack in a swarm squad since after all I need these things to hit at least once before they die. Now in some cases like a Black Sun squad or something with Swap I totally agree but in this paticular squad's case your losing pct. to hit the target in a squad that is probably far more dependant on that then most.


One advantage with the extra 10HP is that Momaw Nadon can't just pwn them all in one turn.


That is true... I should have thought about that with how often I see that fig locally.. :D


Even before Momaw, I think the Aqualish had the edge. Everyone is saying the chadrafan have +1 attack. But if you look at pure attack scores, actually the chadrafan have -3 attack vs the aqualish. They have gregarious, which when certain conditions are met, they have +1 over the aqualish. Granted the condition is pretty simple, but not automatic. You'll likely be playing them with Han ST, so you'll be running 12 to make a smack on someone. That first one in won't get gregarious. And it's easy for scrubs and weak commanders to take out a 10 hp piece, (not to mention one with lower defense) so more of them will die in a round, and you'll lose that gregarious again quicker than you think. And the medium base (more handy for swaps) and black sun will come into play in only certain squads, but I still say outside of TILE WARS, aqualish are the better overall piece.

I guess this was a bit off topic - so back to the brutes:

Brutes are INCREDIBLE for 3 pts. pt for pt they might be the best in the game. Finally - a 3 pt MEDIUM fringe piece came out - and that alone would have been worth it for swap squads. But no - add a little icing to that cake - STABLE FOOTING - makes them an auto include for almost any sawp squad. Certainly a fig that you will have several of available in your Lobot reinforcement options. Not top that off with a +4 attack. CRAZY good for a 3 pt piece! Add a little CE boost, and these guys are no joke. Can'tt tell you how many times I've hit a big baddie for 20hp with a Mitthrawn boosted brute!

But - alas, the unintentional side effect of Jedi reflexes is that melee swarm squads with the attackers under 40 hp are dead in the water vs it.

As already pointed out, lancer (and speeders), Arica, Yodabuck, Momaw, and many other counters already exist, and ABM and disruptive neuters it.

I do however love Han ST and Luke's landspeeder. That's a killer start for a squad in a different direction.


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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Outside of Daniel in owensboro is anyone even playing Jedi Reflexes? The time to play something whacky is now! No one can predict what anyone will bring. This is THE BEST time to play minis we have ever had. Han in Stormtrooper Armor is excellent. Chargin' Fire on all your dudes is really really good. I remember my friend Nathan playing Han and Erc's at Gencon and using Luke RC to levitate them 13 then run them 12 to stick 60 damage on dudes! Han is great. Sure, you lose your accurate shooter but that CE more then makes up for it.

And the Aqualish is far better. 20 hp vs 10 means commanders like rieekan, dodonna, wedge, Tarkin, panaka are all NOT killing them in one hit (assuming no other bonuses) that alone is huge. With Swarm one thing I love about it is every single piece is charging forward to help attack. Rieekan is combining fire and capping Uggies, Han is Charging up to make holes for the swarmers, Even Juno is moving 12 and missing something with accurate shot. I like that a lot better then 2-3 guys attacking and everything else hanging back. Swarm is awesome

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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Weeks wrote:
Outside of Daniel in owensboro is anyone even playing Jedi Reflexes? The time to play something whacky is now! No one can predict what anyone will bring. This is THE BEST time to play minis we have ever had. Han in Stormtrooper Armor is excellent. Chargin' Fire on all your dudes is really really good. I remember my friend Nathan playing Han and Erc's at Gencon and using Luke RC to levitate them 13 then run them 12 to stick 60 damage on dudes! Han is great. Sure, you lose your accurate shooter but that CE more then makes up for it.

And the Aqualish is far better. 20 hp vs 10 means commanders like rieekan, dodonna, wedge, Tarkin, panaka are all NOT killing them in one hit (assuming no other bonuses) that alone is huge. With Swarm one thing I love about it is every single piece is charging forward to help attack. Rieekan is combining fire and capping Uggies, Han is Charging up to make holes for the swarmers, Even Juno is moving 12 and missing something with accurate shot. I like that a lot better then 2-3 guys attacking and everything else hanging back. Swarm is awesome


First off, more people will be playing Corran JM soon.

Second, that is one of 7 or 8 strong counters. All someone needs is Lobot, and you're screwed.

I was lucky to not run into any Lobots in MO with Jake's Vong swarm, or else Momaw Nadon would have s#*t in my cereal.

I think wookiee swarms are legit right now, and other higher HP swarms. I just don't think rodians cut it.

And why are you bringing up levitating ERCs? That is awesome, but in no way similar.

All that said - I agree that it is crazy wide open and matchups are everything right now.

Just too many counters for me to think a Rodian swarm can really compete.


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 Post subject: Re: Brutal Swarm
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:06 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Outside of Daniel in owensboro is anyone even playing Jedi Reflexes? The time to play something whacky is now! No one can predict what anyone will bring. This is THE BEST time to play minis we have ever had. Han in Stormtrooper Armor is excellent. Chargin' Fire on all your dudes is really really good. I remember my friend Nathan playing Han and Erc's at Gencon and using Luke RC to levitate them 13 then run them 12 to stick 60 damage on dudes! Han is great. Sure, you lose your accurate shooter but that CE more then makes up for it.

And the Aqualish is far better. 20 hp vs 10 means commanders like rieekan, dodonna, wedge, Tarkin, panaka are all NOT killing them in one hit (assuming no other bonuses) that alone is huge. With Swarm one thing I love about it is every single piece is charging forward to help attack. Rieekan is combining fire and capping Uggies, Han is Charging up to make holes for the swarmers, Even Juno is moving 12 and missing something with accurate shot. I like that a lot better then 2-3 guys attacking and everything else hanging back. Swarm is awesome


First off, more people will be playing Corran JM soon.

Second, that is one of 7 or 8 strong counters. All someone needs is Lobot, and you're screwed.

I was lucky to not run into any Lobots in MO with Jake's Vong swarm, or else Momaw Nadon would have s#*t in my cereal.

I think wookiee swarms are legit right now, and other higher HP swarms. I just don't think rodians cut it.

And why are you bringing up levitating ERCs? That is awesome, but in no way similar.

All that said - I agree that it is crazy wide open and matchups are everything right now.

Just too many counters for me to think a Rodian swarm can really compete.


All true, my point was just JR hasn't been a factor so far. The other counters are legit. I was also thinking about running Talz Warriors and Aqualish Assassins. I'd have to drop Landspeeder and Leia to make it work but that helps somewhat. I agree about Wookiee Commando's. That squad is for real.

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