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 Post subject: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:24 am 
Death Star Designers
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Ok, I want to make sure I understand this.

Death shots and Self Destruct happen at the same time, and both happen before the character is removed from the board. Lets say the setup is this:

XXXX
XDSX
XXXX
XXXE

D = Death Shot character
S = Self Destruct character
E = some other character
X = empty space

On the Self Destruct character's turn, it runs past the Death Shot character and provokes an AoO. D hits with the AoO, killing S. Now we get to the "when defeated" step, and Self Destruct happens. S kills D, so now D gets a Death Shot. Is S still on the board for the Death Shot? It doesn't seem like we've gotten to the next step of resolving effects yet, so S would still be on the board, meaning the Death Shot would have to target S even though S is in the middle of being defeated. Or since S is being defeated would D get to target E?

Basically does the Death Shot interrupt the Self Destruct sequence of resolving effects, even though they happen at the same step? Or would I resolve all of S's turn, including removing him from the board, and then get the Death Shot and be able to shoot E with it?

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:02 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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From the Resolving Effects
Step 8: Resolve any remaining "when defeated" effects such as Impulsive Shot, Impulsive Sweep, Self-Destruct, Cleave, Rolling Cleave, Mon Mothma's commander effect, and so on. Use the simultaneous effects rule as usual. As in previous steps, Impulsive Shot and Impulsive Sweep can begin new attack sequences that interrupt this sequence; resolve the new attack completely, then continue where you left off with the original attack.
Step 9: Remove the defeated character from the battle grid.

So the character is still on the battle grid as you have to resolve all "when defeated" steps before removing the defeated character.


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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:20 am 
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So D would not be able to shoot E, since S is adjacent? Just want to make sure I get this precisely right, as I think it could come up at our regional this weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:38 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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Correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:53 am 
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Alright, what about this situation:


XXXXX
EXSAX
XXXBX

S is a Self Destruct character, A and B are separate characters, both with Death Shots. E is still just some other enemy.

S gets defeated at the start of a round by a MTB and blows up, killing both A and B, so they get their Death Shots. Based on your previous answer, first they would have to shoot S before shooting past him at something else. What if A takes its Death Shot and shoots S and kills it; would B be able to shoot at E? Would Self Destruct trigger again somehow?

Also, in what order do the Death Shots happen? If S gets killed by Tactics Broker, it isn't anyone's turn, so who's the "acting player"? Who gets to decide the order of the events?

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:12 pm 
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The acting player is the player who initiates the initial action, in this case, the player in control of the Muun Tactics Broker.

You would not be able to make the death shots if the character removed by Tactics Broker was the only legal target.

This follows all the Flurry precedents.

Edit: Removed a bit that isn't technically correct.

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Last edited by Sithborg on Mon May 14, 2012 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
The acting player is the player who initiates the initial action, in this case, the player in control of the Muun Tactics Broker.

Once a character is defeated, it can't be defeated again. You would not be able to make the death shots if the character removed by Tactics Broker was the only legal target.

This follows all the Flurry precedents.


Awesome, I think that covers it. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Good stuff, thanks for the lesson gentlemen. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:55 pm 
Master of the Order
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That all hurt my head a bit, but I think I gathered that in general, self destruct has the advantage in this situation. The death shooters have to unload into an already dying self destructor. In other words, pointless for the death shooters to even attack.

Is that basically right?


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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Yes, just like Flurry against an adjacent fig that you will be killing.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:35 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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TimmerB123 wrote:
That all hurt my head a bit, but I think I gathered that in general, self destruct has the advantage in this situation. The death shooters have to unload into an already dying self destructor. In other words, pointless for the death shooters to even attack.

Is that basically right?


If there is only one self-destruct person basing one death shots person, yes. But if say a Kel Dor blows up and takes out two death shooters, while the first one has to shoot the Kel Dor's corpse, the other one can target any other legal enemy.

This gets really fun when the character in question is, you guessed it, a Mandalorian Death Watch Mercenary with both self-destruct and death shots.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:02 pm 
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greentime wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
That all hurt my head a bit, but I think I gathered that in general, self destruct has the advantage in this situation. The death shooters have to unload into an already dying self destructor. In other words, pointless for the death shooters to even attack.

Is that basically right?


If there is only one self-destruct person basing one death shots person, yes. But if say a Kel Dor blows up and takes out two death shooters, while the first one has to shoot the Kel Dor's corpse, the other one can target any other legal enemy.

This gets really fun when the character in question is, you guessed it, a Mandalorian Death Watch Mercenary with both self-destruct and death shots.


Wait - I'm confused. I thought they BOTH had to shoot the corpse, since the fig is not removed until all the self destruct and death shots are completed


Last edited by TimmerB123 on Mon May 14, 2012 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:15 pm 
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What Tim said

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:22 pm 
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greentime wrote:
If there is only one self-destruct person basing one death shots person, yes. But if say a Kel Dor blows up and takes out two death shooters, while the first one has to shoot the Kel Dor's corpse, the other one can target any other legal enemy.

This gets really fun when the character in question is, you guessed it, a Mandalorian Death Watch Mercenary with both self-destruct and death shots.


The first part can't happen. I was rethinking along your lines of thinking, but it doesn't work. If you were able to follow through on the full attack sequence of the first death shooter against the Kel Dor, you would remove the Kel Dor before the second death shooter could be affected by Self Destruct. But here's the thing, going over it again, you would also have to resolve the "when defeated" effects, ie Self Destruct, thus still leaving both figures with death shot with only one target, Kel Dor. There is no way to justify the second figure to still be on the board for the death shot and the Kel Dor not, so they both essentially lose their death shots.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Destruct and Death Shots
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Just one more counter to the mandos then.

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