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 Post subject: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:41 pm 
Warmaster
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Ive recently been picking up figures for the Sith faction which has made me look hard at the ones from the Vsets. I'm kinda lost at what to do with the faction but this is what I came up with.

Uggie x2
Lobot
Atton "jaq" Rand
Exar-Kun, Dark Force Spirit
Sith Inquisitor
Dr Evazan, Galatic Criminal
Marka Ragnos
Map: Cargo Docks

The idea is to attach Exar to Marka. Use force Rage a lot to get 60-80 damage in attacks. Also use Sith Inquistor at Range to try to cheese some extra damage by using my opponents figures. Have Atton clean up the mess and be a second override.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:54 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Location: Yes, I am yet another Canadian. Keeping the game alive on life support in the GTA.
Audri is making Sith squads :!: :?: :?: :!: :!:

I'm telling Bastilla Shan.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:37 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Right now for Sith I like an "OR-esque" squad with lots of mid-priced figures. Atton, Traya, Bandon, and Kaan fit into a squad with plenty of room for Lobot, Sideogram (or Exar Kun FS), and a little bit of tech on the side. I would definitely ditch the Sith Inquisitor - too fragile and too unpredictable - in favor of Bandon. That way Ragnos, who really needs to deal lots of damage for you to win games, will do even more. Plus Atton gets even nastier!

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:02 pm 
Warmaster
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R5Don4 wrote:
Audri is making Sith squads :!: :?: :?: :!: :!:

I'm telling Bastilla Shan.


Yeah really I know, it kindoff came by accident when I fell into a Darth Talon. Generally I only collect a few factions and I needed a new one and no one was playing Sith locally. However I will say by playing the Sith, Im doing a better job destroying them then I ever did with OR LOL!!

As far as Darth Bandon, Ill go ahead and make the switch. I wasn't totally sold on the Inquisitor since I was praying he could take a Windu for a turn and wreck some havoc before he got accurate shot to death LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:37 pm 
Death Star Designers
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The key to Sith is to know your playstyle. Are big beats with high damage your style? I lean toward the Sith version of activation control in Sith Sorcery.

And thinking about it, the way some of the squads seem to be heading toward heavy beats the Inquisitor might be a nasty surprise, especially when combined with Exar's Dark Aura and The Huntress's Force Suppression. It is a meta call, no doubt, but I would love to see how a Mace Gowk squad deals with either the loss of the CE or having Mace turn around on them for a round, or waste a ton of HP.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:34 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Welcome to the club. Scott and I seem alone now that Ben isn't around as the only Sith fans.

Personally, I like Sith Sorcery as well, as you saw me run a version of it at Michigan.

My favorite is still Darth Revan, Exar FS, Naga, Atton/Bandon.

But I think we've added enough mid costers that other options are available. The problem with Sith is that they have some great tricks, but they are costly, and often face some really good match ups and some really awful ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:20 am 
Warmaster
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billiv15 wrote:
Welcome to the club. Scott and I seem alone now that Ben isn't around as the only Sith fans.

Personally, I like Sith Sorcery as well, as you saw me run a version of it at Michigan.

My favorite is still Darth Revan, Exar FS, Naga, Atton/Bandon.

But I think we've added enough mid costers that other options are available. The problem with Sith is that they have some great tricks, but they are costly, and often face some really good match ups and some really awful ones.


I definetly see what you mean by good matchups and some down right awful ones. Last night at my local tourney I played Zannah/Marka Ragnos/2x Disciple of Ragnos and utility. Round 1 I destroyed a SS Republic commando squad that couldn't hit the 25 defense in cover. Round 2 however HannahCannon whooped my butt with a Vader swap squad. Marka Ragnos died to Vader without even getting to make an attack..

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:12 am 
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I have been thinking about Sith a lot lately. (Yes, Tim Ballard :o)


They are the only faction never to win a regional.

They have some great tools, but I think Bill put it very well that they are expensive tools.


I really think that Revan is a must. He adds too much to leave out. The one phase move 20 squares swap + move 6 squares and attack is too strong to ignore. Obviously master tactician is immense as well, and he ain't so bad on his own either.

Beyond that, I do NOT think Zannah is the way to go. She is a giant nuisance, and will certainly be a pain to deal with - but I don't think she'll help you consistently win games. She's too easy to ignore and kill everyone else. Her defense is insane, but her damage output is too low to be a real threat. I honestly think she is not going to be in a true tier 1 Sith squad (If that even exists).

Atton Jaq Rand is the next "must include" for me. Giving override to a killer shooter is pretty sick. Giving avoid defeat to someone who has force points and has easy cheap access to multiple ways of getting more force points (Sid hologram and Exar DFS) is nuts. That avoid defeat roll changes games. Graham won Owensboro regionals due to a well timed avoid defeat in the finals. In MO, I had someone make 6 (yes, six) avoid defeat saves in a row in one game, and I barely won due to it. Literally, he can live forever. He can throw out 80 damage vs living with Exar DFS that can't be shut off by Bastilla OR disruptive, and throw in a CE to make it a cool 100, or 2 CEs to make it 120! I don't see how you can't consider him for every Sith squad.

After that - you have a lot of choices. There are the other 36 point sluggers (kinda like 27 points in the rebels - SO many great options).

Kaan - So great. Backlash + bravado is so fun, and then you blowup to cripple a squad. I've run him and killed him before doing anything else, and it was worth it. How often can you say that about a 36+ pt piece? And throw in Sid holo or Exar DFS and he can Illusion to survive to gets some attacks in, and still thought bomb. OK - so you'll never use his CE in a competitive squad - who cares?

Traya - Frickin' sweet. Triple with telekinetic is bonkers for 36 points. She has ranged and melee defense, and a way to boost her own attack and defense. Oh, then toss in a way to do 20 auto damage and heal back up 20 (+ steal a FP to boot). Yeah. You can juice her up to 120 damage with Exar DFS and Bandon.

Maladi - overlooked but not too bad. She can do 70 damage by herself on the move, and can be juiced up quite quickly. The extra 10 from burst lightening is awesome (so glad the name was changed). And torture is quite handy. Send her in first, and soften up those toughies for good.

Then cheaper still but very nice for his cost is good old Bandon. Obviously his CE is the reason to take him, but Grip 2 and double with rage can't be overlooked. And of course riposte is always nice to have.

The other one I have been thinking about a lot is Maul. 160 damage ON THE MOVE, WITHOUT CEs, cannot be denied. Oh - and you can cloak him, so he won't get shot to crap before you can do your nastiness. Leap, riposte, Teras Kasi, Loner - he really is nuts. ESPECIALLY in Sith with an awesome movement breaker and easy ways to get more FP. His FPs are so good, 4 pts must be carefully spent. But now with Exar DFS and/or Sid holo - voila - he's insane. Especially in this lower activation Meta.

Above this point level I am not convinced on any of the big Sith beats (Other than Revan SL). I just don't know if they pull their weight in cost. I am personally NOT a fan of sith sorcery - it's too many 50/50 rolls (in other words - luck). Yes, you can get in Exar DFS to increase those odds, but that's not easy to do with a speed 4 character outside of TILE WARS.

Huntress is interesting but more of a nuisance than a threat

There might be something there with Dessel, he has potential. He's like a more stout Arica, so that can't be overlooked.

But when all is said and done, the Sith don't have the SUPER crazy movement breakers like Republic, Separatist and Imperial. They don't have activation control, or even a great way to get a ton of activations. At least not activations that serve any other real purpose on the squad. They don't have great ways to shut don't other squads CEs like OR or NR, so Rebels and Mandos can be quite troublesome. Vong are their Achilles heel. But if the meta keeps going in the direction of brute squads, then Sith may actually fare well.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:16 pm 
Death Star Designers
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The Revan/Maul swap is pretty brutal. I got third at the Lansing Champs this year. It does have potential.

If the meta shifts to bigger beats, then Sith Sorcery may not be the best usage of Force Points, but in my experience, you really only need one good one to make it worth it. I still like Marka Ragnos, even if he isn't complete. That 25 Def when you are adjacent can be brutal, and is what helped me vs Mandos.

Huntress is really a bit of a meta call. She can get pretty brutal up close, but her full effectiveness with Force Suppression is dependent on what the opponent is playing.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:17 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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TimmerB123 wrote:
A lot of well thought-out things.


Wanted to salute a really great post and add a little bit.

Agree that Zannah does not do enough damage to anchor a squad. Even with Bandon, she just never seems to do enough. I guess it tells you how much the game has changed that 60 damage, on the move, at +14, doesn't seem like enough.

Disagree about Revan(v) being a must-have. He's great, definitely, but you have to pay so much for him. His commander effect can also be very tricky to use effectively. If you want to play him with Maul, that's 119 points in two figures. Two really good figures, but Maul doesn't have any defense against shooting. If you swap him deep, you'd best kill something important, because otherwise Maul isn't likely to last the turn.

On the flip side, Maul is a really good counter to the Mace squads that don't have any shooters in them. You take a lot less damage from Mace - if he doesn't roll crits, he's screwed - and can throw down 40 damage shots that he can't defend. It would take GOWK just forever to kill him, too.

I wonder if a squad like this couldn't do well, in our current meta:

57 Darth Maul, Sith Infiltrator
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
27 Lobot
16 Grand Admiral Rulf Yage
15 Ponda Baba, Galactic Criminal
11 Darth Sidious Hologram
4 Peace Brigade Thug
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

I would love to stick Bandon in there, but it just doesn't quite work out. Atton becomes fierce as all get-out with cunning, Dash becomes useful all-around, and you have Ponda Baba to help keep them alive.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:20 pm 
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greentime wrote:
On the flip side, Maul is a really good counter to the Mace squads that don't have any shooters in them. You take a lot less damage from Mace - if he doesn't roll crits, he's screwed - and can throw down 40 damage shots that he can't defend. It would take GOWK just forever to kill him, too.


The problem with this is that Mace is going to force absorb the Sith Rage 2 every time, if he's got enough force points left.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:05 pm 
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Which is why you weaken him before unleashing Maul. And even then, Maul will still only take 30 or 90 on a crit.

Honestly, the biggest tool for the Sith is coming in V4. The Squib is a great boost to Bandon and a few other CE's of theirs.

Revan is good, and possibly the best option currently. There are other options for the Sith. I've had really good success basing my squads on Sith Sorcery guys. Beatsticks with high defense and a lot of health can be difficult for Strafing squads. I'm curious to see how it will go next time I play Tim.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Exactly mace will always absorb the rage 2 which brings up the question on if you can use rage after your first atk and only have it for your double.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to make Sith work.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Sure can. You don't have to use Rage on your first attack, you just have to use it before a non-Twin Attack.

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