logo

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:00 am 
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:17 am
Posts: 2931
If I mount Thon with a savage character (assuming I can't base an enemy when I mount) is that a way to get around the savage sa or would I be forced to dismount when I can base an enemy? Just thinking I could constantly keep a rak on Thon and never be affected by the negative side affects of savage.

_________________
"But one thing I have learned in this process is that flavor can't override the good of the game."
-urbanshmi2-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Online
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:16 am 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:00 pm
Posts: 6547
Location: Southern IL
I wouldn't think so. When mounted, they are considered removed from the battle grid, so they can't "move" anyway.

Interesting question.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:32 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
Unnamed Wookiee

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:27 am
Posts: 23
Location: Severn, MD
In answer to the OP, no, dismount is not considered movement so is not affected by savage. However, I don't think swinefield is right about mount. The mount definition says the mounter moves simultaneously with the mountee. So I think because the savage char is moving, savage then dictates in part where the mount must end the movement. This fits the idea of mount as well, it's the rider that directs a horse and not vice-versa.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:01 pm 
Big Bad Brad
Big Bad Brad
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am
Posts: 5344
Except it all occurs during Thon's turn. Savage require you to end your [the character's] turn adjacent if you can. Since that character would have no official movement during histurn, Savage would not come into play.

_________________
"200 or 2"
"Consistency is the key, not crying"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:03 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3480
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Except it all occurs during Thon's turn. Savage require you to end your [the character's] turn adjacent if you can. Since that character would have no official turn, Savage would nto come into play.


Well, that character has a turn, but you can't move on that turn since you're mounted, so Savage doesn't come into play. You're right that the movement does happen all on Thon's turn.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:09 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 3886
Placing a figure using Dismount or Mount is not movement, thus is not required to follow the rules for Savage.

And if a Savage character is "riding" the Desert Skiff, Troop Cart, or Thon, Savage does not come into play, as their movement is dictated by the character without Savage they are riding.

_________________
Bloomilk Ambassador


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:07 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
Unnamed Wookiee

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:27 am
Posts: 23
Location: Severn, MD
@ The_Celestial_Warrior, card text mentions nothing about a "turn" says, must end its"move" next to an enemy if possible. Glossary only mentions a "turn" in the event the savage character starts adjacent to an enemy.

@ Sithborg, I take it that you are keying in on the word "its" in coming to that ruling. Since the movement is tecnically the mounts movement? Would it be different if somehow a savage character were able to perform a rolling cleave or would the phrase "its move" only refer to the characters normal movement on its turn?

On a side note, Skiff, Troop Cart, and the like would not set a precident for this ruling as a character riding them can NEVER end a movement adjacent to an enemy.
On Mount they can.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:13 pm 
Major Tierce
Major Tierce

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3163
Mount is the exact same as troop cart except it is only 1 piece instead of multiple like the troop cart/skiff.

And I believe the ruling that this stems from is the definition where when it is aboard something that during its turn it cannot actually move. It can dismount (not movement), but cannot actually move. Therefore it can never end its move adjacent to an enemy character.

_________________
When I left you I was but the learner . . . now I am the master.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:38 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 3575
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Yes, a character is removed from the battle grid. As shown, you must look at the Glossary Text:
"This special ability is similar to Troop Cart, with the exception that it can only transport 1 Small or Medium ally."

So you must now look at the Glossary Text for Troop Cart:
"This special ability is similar to Desert Skiff, with the following exceptions. Transported characters do not gain Flight, but they do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Count range from this character for the purposes of making attacks or using commander effects. If this character is defeated, each transported character is also defeated unless it makes a save of 6."

So you must finally now look at the Glossary Text for Desert Skiff:
"Desert Skiff
This character can transport up to one Large ally or two Small or Medium allies. To board, they must end their moves adjacent to its base. Remove these characters from the battle map; you can place them on this character to indicate that they have boarded. Transported characters are still in play and can take advantage of commander effects, special abilities, and Force powers. They are treated as adjacent to this character, as well as to each other, and move with it, benefiting from its Flight special ability and gaining cover.

Transported characters can make attacks: Count range from this character, adding 1 square. (The range for attacking transported characters, or for using commander effects or other abilities, is counted the same way.) This means they generally cannot use Melee Attack if they don't have Melee Reach. Transported characters can disembark and return to the battle map immediately before your first activation of the round and can take their turns normally that round. Place them adjacent to this character's space.

If this character is defeated, transported characters are also defeated; each can make a save of 11 to avoid this effect. Transported characters who succeed on this save are placed on the battle map adjacent to the space previously occupied by this character.

If some other effect changes this character's position on the battle map, the transported characters also move to the new position. If a transported character becomes part of another player's squad (such as through Betrayal), it immediately disembarks."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:54 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
Unnamed Wookiee

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:27 am
Posts: 23
Location: Severn, MD
I stand corrected on Troop Cart, but seems I was right on the Skiff. Where did you find that glossary entry for Mount? Lol NM just found it someone missed bolding the entry in the glossary. The word "similar" seems obscure. The same word is used in the troop cart entry. It then goes on to list the exceptions, but fails to list the difference on range measurement.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:58 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 3575
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Similar = exactly the same except for the listed exceptions. WotC used it all the time to save space.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:15 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
Unnamed Wookiee

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:27 am
Posts: 23
Location: Severn, MD
Just looked at the ruling for boarding a skiff/cart/mount. Seems to contradict the ruling here though. Seems any movement caused by the player controlling the boarding character is eligible to trigger boarding (ie. Tow Cable, Levitate, etc.) "To board, they must end THIER moves adjacent to its base." This seems awefully similar wording to Savage - "This character must end ITS move next to an enemy..." Is this a case of "just because I say so"?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:25 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 3886
Archdeluxe wrote:
Just looked at the ruling for boarding a skiff/cart/mount. Seems to contradict the ruling here though. Seems any movement caused by the player controlling the boarding character is eligible to trigger boarding (ie. Tow Cable, Levitate, etc.) "To board, they must end THIER moves adjacent to its base." This seems awefully similar wording to Savage - "This character must end ITS move next to an enemy..." Is this a case of "just because I say so"?


You are looking at the conditions to board, not the conditions when they are already aboard. When the "transport", as it where, moves, it isn't the Savage character that is initiating the move. Neither the Skiff, the Troop Cart, or Thon has Savage, so they don't have to end their move next to an enemy, no matter who is aboard.

_________________
Bloomilk Ambassador


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Mount and savage?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:04 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
Unnamed Stormtrooper
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:40 pm
Posts: 4
Sithborg wrote:
Placing a figure using Dismount or Mount is not movement, thus is not required to follow the rules for Savage.

And if a Savage character is "riding" the Desert Skiff, Troop Cart, or Thon, Savage does not come into play, as their movement is dictated by the character without Savage they are riding.

Yes its the same as the troop cart


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights style by Scott Stubblefield