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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:02 pm 
Third Jedi from the Left
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Why is accurate shot needed to shoot a character riding on Thon? I understand they have cover, but if Thon is in cover too, wouldn't Thon and the piece mounted on him both be legal targets?

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:17 pm 
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They are equidistant, so if Thon is a legal target, his passenger is a legal target. No Accurate Shot needed.

And against most squads, the extra attacks are better than a mere 30 damage.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
They are equidistant, so if Thon is a legal target, his passenger is a legal target. No Accurate Shot needed.

And against most squads, the extra attacks are better than a mere 30 damage.


Ah, so Mount acts differently than Desert Skiff for targeting?

Also, the difference in damage between the Dr. and a diplomat helping Thon is 20 damage a round (with bastilla), 10 without her (or just a guaranteed 30 damage vs adjacent). Extra 10-20 damage or better survivability on thon? I like the ability to live longer but I can see merit to an extra 10-20 damage a round.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Jedi_Master wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
They are equidistant, so if Thon is a legal target, his passenger is a legal target. No Accurate Shot needed.

And against most squads, the extra attacks are better than a mere 30 damage.


Ah, so Mount acts differently than Desert Skiff for targeting?

Also, the difference in damage between the Dr. and a diplomat helping Thon is 20 damage a round (with bastilla), 10 without her (or just a guaranteed 30 damage vs adjacent). Extra 10-20 damage or better survivability on thon? I like the ability to live longer but I can see merit to an extra 10-20 damage a round.


I think the big question is whether to try to block random shots or hope the good doctor lives long enough to give Thon avoid defeat. The diplomat or Baron both have enough defensive properties to last long enough to run with Thon as long as necessary. With the squad list from Lansing Regionals I would really lean towards Baron.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:57 pm 
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I don't see how the doctor is ever going to live long enough to be useful, unless he's rolling Avoid Defeats like a boss. While the Senator is pretty safe up there, unless there's a direct counter like a force power or indiscriminate. I like the idea of a Kel Dor bounty hunter as a passenger too - it's easier to keep safe a lot of the time, since it has Stealth, as it means you can hit everyone adjacent for 80 damage with a force repulse 4.


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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:00 pm 
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That is a funny idea, but having played Thon more then I should have over the last six months you can't be taking damage like that. With him being 60pts to put in the squad you have to be very very careful with him.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Jedi_Master wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
They are equidistant, so if Thon is a legal target, his passenger is a legal target. No Accurate Shot needed.

And against most squads, the extra attacks are better than a mere 30 damage.


Ah, so Mount acts differently than Desert Skiff for targeting?

Also, the difference in damage between the Dr. and a diplomat helping Thon is 20 damage a round (with bastilla), 10 without her (or just a guaranteed 30 damage vs adjacent). Extra 10-20 damage or better survivability on thon? I like the ability to live longer but I can see merit to an extra 10-20 damage a round.


Mount works like Troop Cart, not Dessert Skiff.

With the Diplomat, the immediate attack is at 30 damage (40 with Bastilla), and the Twin is 20 damage (30 with Bastilla). So, 20-40 damage difference.
And against GOWK, you are better of using Repulse, which makes having Evazan nearby a bad idea.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:19 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
That is a funny idea, but having played Thon more then I should have over the last six months you can't be taking damage like that. With him being 60pts to put in the squad you have to be very very careful with him.


I've only tried it in casual games, but it worked well for me. I think it's often a good trade to put an extra 40 on each adjacent enemy, especially since Thon is large, in exchange for losing 40hp on Thon. It's probably good to have an OR Senator and Lobot in your squad, and choose whether to bring in the Kel Dor or not depending on what you're up against. But I think it's a good call against a low activation, high HP squad like GOWK or Sith (as long as they don't have Force Absorb).


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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
Mount works like Troop Cart, not Dessert Skiff.



'Dessert Skiff', if memory serves, is available at Dairy Queen.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:57 am 
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Sithborg wrote:
Mount works like Troop Cart, not Dessert Skiff.

With the Diplomat, the immediate attack is at 30 damage (40 with Bastilla), and the Twin is 20 damage (30 with Bastilla). So, 20-40 damage difference.
And against GOWK, you are better of using Repulse, which makes having Evazan nearby a bad idea.


If I am reading troop cart correctly (and the errata) the character being carried is not equidistant, just adjacent. Hence why it doesn't take aoo's when moving with the troop cart. After all, you can be adjacent to somebody and still be in cover and thereby not a legal target. (hence why they talk about the I formation in the intro books) So, can he be targeted while mounting Thon? (that sounds so wrong...)

I read the senator a little better, +10 damage and with the mice he doesn't have to be near by. Still, I plan on riding the Thon with Evazan, that was part of the comedic effect. Would repulse hurt Evazan if he is using mount? I mean, I know it says adjacent but it also says they are removed from the battle grid.

As for his survivability, he does have 22 defense while riding Thon (4 from cover and 3 from Kavar)

audrisampson wrote:
I think the big question is whether to try to block random shots or hope the good doctor lives long enough to give Thon avoid defeat. The diplomat or Baron both have enough defensive properties to last long enough to run with Thon as long as necessary. With the squad list from Lansing Regionals I would really lean towards Baron.


The sage actually has the same defense as the Dr. and 20 less HP. The senator would hide in a corner, yes, but it is also in the league of "oh crap, you got line of sight on me, I'm dead." Though I guess that is what diplomat is for.

Upon the vast response given, I have made a few edits to the squad. Here is what I have now.

65 Master Kavar
64 Master Thon
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
27 Lobot
9 Mouse Droid x3

If melee comes up I'll bring in the good Dr. with a mouse or uggie, Range gives me the baran do with the same, and numbers gives me a senator with a mouse and an uggie. Basically the same set as the other squad, just more activations and no remote door boom (though override gets the job done just as well).

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:09 am 
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The problem with the Baron Do Sage is that while that force ability it has is nice, it is still a force ability. And the fact that anyone can target him is not good. If the Sage even takes 10 damage or makes even just one save, the force ability gets turned off, leaving Thon open to shots. I have tried the Thon/Sage combo and while it worked with the Sage using Inution to get away first round so that Thon can do a repulse without killing him, it just didn't seem to be worth it. Cool idea, but it's not very practical when going against shooters. I like the comedic aspect of Dr.E riding on Thon, but its again not a very good option to have in a squad since Dr.E riding on Thon will not allow Thon to use Repulse 4 without damaging Dr.E. Only things with Surpise Move/ Intuition make good units to have Mounted if you are going to rely on Force Repulse 4. I wonder how well Boba Fett,Mercenary would work in a squad with him. With Bastilla's ABM running, he's doing 80 dmg with accurate and Cunning.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:08 am 
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The best rider for thon is a Jedi Seer. Evade vs shooting, surprise move to get away from a repulse, and Reflexes vs whoever comes to fight Thon.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:52 am 
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Jedi_Master wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Mount works like Troop Cart, not Dessert Skiff.

With the Diplomat, the immediate attack is at 30 damage (40 with Bastilla), and the Twin is 20 damage (30 with Bastilla). So, 20-40 damage difference.
And against GOWK, you are better of using Repulse, which makes having Evazan nearby a bad idea.


If I am reading troop cart correctly (and the errata) the character being carried is not equidistant, just adjacent. Hence why it doesn't take aoo's when moving with the troop cart. After all, you can be adjacent to somebody and still be in cover and thereby not a legal target. (hence why they talk about the I formation in the intro books) So, can he be targeted while mounting Thon? (that sounds so wrong...)

I read the senator a little better, +10 damage and with the mice he doesn't have to be near by. Still, I plan on riding the Thon with Evazan, that was part of the comedic effect. Would repulse hurt Evazan if he is using mount? I mean, I know it says adjacent but it also says they are removed from the battle grid.

As for his survivability, he does have 22 defense while riding Thon (4 from cover and 3 from Kavar)

audrisampson wrote:
I think the big question is whether to try to block random shots or hope the good doctor lives long enough to give Thon avoid defeat. The diplomat or Baron both have enough defensive properties to last long enough to run with Thon as long as necessary. With the squad list from Lansing Regionals I would really lean towards Baron.


The sage actually has the same defense as the Dr. and 20 less HP. The senator would hide in a corner, yes, but it is also in the league of "oh crap, you got line of sight on me, I'm dead." Though I guess that is what diplomat is for.

Upon the vast response given, I have made a few edits to the squad. Here is what I have now.

65 Master Kavar
64 Master Thon
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
27 Lobot
9 Mouse Droid x3

If melee comes up I'll bring in the good Dr. with a mouse or uggie, Range gives me the baran do with the same, and numbers gives me a senator with a mouse and an uggie. Basically the same set as the other squad, just more activations and no remote door boom (though override gets the job done just as well).

You can't bring in the OR Senator with Lobot, because Lobot can only bring in Fringe pieces for reinforcements.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Weeks wrote:
The best rider for thon is a Jedi Seer. Evade vs shooting, surprise move to get away from a repulse, and Reflexes vs whoever comes to fight Thon.


Interesting - I'd never thought of that.


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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:53 pm 
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The way Regionals went I could easily see Seer being a good choice. Knock those Lansers right out of the school.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Jedi_Master wrote:
If I am reading troop cart correctly (and the errata) the character being carried is not equidistant, just adjacent. Hence why it doesn't take aoo's when moving with the troop cart. After all, you can be adjacent to somebody and still be in cover and thereby not a legal target. (hence why they talk about the I formation in the intro books) So, can he be targeted while mounting Thon? (that sounds so wrong...)


You count range to Thon or the Troop Cart in order to target the rider, thus, they are equidistant, since you are counting the same range. The passenger just has cover. The adjacent clause is for things like Force Lightning 2 or Grenade. And Repulse will affect a passenger.

Also, Surprise Move happens before dismounting, and you can't use Surprise Move while you are aboard Thon.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:35 am 
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I played this squad last night against Chris Elwell on Theed Palace. He was playing an OR squad with Naomi Sunrider instead of Thon with the list he played at regionals. Not knowing he was going OR I went with the OR senator. The main portion of the battle took place place near the side door of the large of the center building. Because of the constant shot output, he was able to run the figures out of force points then it just went south quick. If I played this again I would try using Cargo Docks to protect the squad from random shots but you would have to win the map EVERY time to protect this squad enough to stand a chance in big competition.

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 Post subject: Re: I call it, "My bad idea"
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Mount works like Troop Cart, not Dessert Skiff.



'Dessert Skiff', if memory serves, is available at Dairy Queen.


Along with Blizzard Scout 1 w/Reese Pieces....

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