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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:34 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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10. AT-ST
9.Mandalorian Scout
8.R2-3P0 Galactic Heros
7.Yammosk
6. Selacious Crumb
5. Ugnaught Demolitionist
4. Celest Mourn
3. Dr. Evazan Evazan Galactic Criminal
2. Rackghoul
1. Darth Bane


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:58 pm 
Intelligence Operative
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Cool story captaingig, she is crazy!

My favorite 10

1. General Grievous DAC (best commander ever)
2. Wat Tambor TUF (droid swarm!)
3. Kazdan Paratus (more droid swarm)
4. Delilah Blue (way hot and a good mechanic/backup to my old hug droid teams)
5. The phantom menace (lightning and self destructing geonosians, what's not to like?)
6. Galen Marek (so much force fun)
7. Nom Anor (the original Vong villain and still good, even years later)
8. Kyle Katarn JBM (disruptive, grenades, lightning, yep this is the bane of chuck Norris)
9. Battle Droid (simple mechanical 3 point [thanks Gha!] fun that are asking for self destruct 10)
10. Destroyer Droid Series 2 (what it was always meant to be, now please stop handing out overwhelming power/force)

Also worst piece in the game Lancer, the only one we have ever banned.


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:30 am 
Master of the Order
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Top 10 pieces - 10 factions. Coincidence? Probably - but I will do one from each faction anyway.

These are the pieces that when I am trying to construct a competitive squad I won't build it without strongly considering this piece first. I usually start with this piece and then build around it.

These are not necessarily my "favorite" pieces, but the ones I consider to be the strongest in top tier competitive squads.

10. Mandalorian Gunsmith. (Mandalorian) This one was the toughest to pick (perhaps because I believe Mandos have the furthest to go to be top tier). But the Gunsmith just adds too much to your squads. A great reinforcement from Jaster Mareel, and override is always great. Twin is so easy to get in the mandos, and with Cunning +20 (Not to mention Ion gun +20 for those pesky droids and speeders), he becomes quite a slugger. Mobile built in keeps him alive. <Honorable Mentions: Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer (though only through Jaster usually), Mandalorian Scout, Mandalorian Captain, Jaster Mareel, Pre Vizsla>

9. Darth Revan, Sith Lord. (Sith) By far the most expensive piece on my list - but he is what the Sith needed to compete. Since they don't have activation control (and never will most likely) they needed a way to get into the action in one phase. The 2 activation swap is that way. Typically with either Thrawn or Panaka or K-3PO (or the rarely used Darth Sidious, Sith Master) - You have to move a character into place, swap them via the aforementioned characters, and then do your thing. Now with this newer version of Revan, you can sprint in (Master speed no less) and swap in one turn, then do your dirty work in that same phase. Oh by the way he also has Master Tactician, Double, Cunning, Renewal, MotF 2, Lightsaber Defense, and Lightsaber Assault. Badass. <Honorable Mentions: Exar Kun Dark Force Spirit, Atton "Jaq" Rand, Darth Bandon, Darth Traya, Lord Kaan, Darth Zannah>

8. Ganner Rhysode. (New Republic) As soon as I saw this figure my jaw dropped open and I said this was the ultimate game changer for the NR. Levitation is so massive on this figure it cannot be understated. Get your slugger (Mara Jade, Jedi or Corran Horn JM) in their face. Pull that fragile shooter to safety. Give that Anakin or Jacen "bomb" enough distance to stand in the perfect spot to hit masses of enemies. This bit of tech gave the NR exactly what it needed. But oh wait - there's more. He also has renewal so he can do it EVERY TURN. Also he has Stealth, Loner, quick reactions, double attack, force push 2 and lightsaber sweep. Yeah. <Honorable Mentions: General Dodonna (stay tuned), Anakin Solo, Mara Jade Jedi, Han Solo Galactic Hero.>

7. Mas Amedda. (Imperial) The most important piece in any Imperial squad is from the Republic? Yes. All about the Booming Voice. Unlike Republic where some squads don't need commander effects and some commander effects are not range 6, virtually all imperial squads are CE focused and very often range 6. I debated either Thrawn being in the top spot (gotta include one of the 2 to be top tier) - then it hit me - you must use Mas with either! <Honrable Mentions: Admiral Ozzel, Arica, Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo), Grand Admiral Thrawn, Admiral Gilad Pellaeon, General Weir>

6. Battle Droid Officer. (Separatist) In the faction of droids, this little piece is simply too good to be left out. The argument would be that in an all living Separatist squad, he isn't needed. True, but those aren't top tier at the moment. Adding +4 attack with no range and it cannot be disrupted or "Bastila'ed" is so important. Whether you have a Lancer, IG's, Assassin Droids, Destroyers, or any attacking droid - you gotta include this droid too. <Honorable Mentions: IG Lancer Droid, A-Series Assassin Droids, Poggle the Lesser, San Hill, Darth Sidious, General Whorm Loathsom, T-Series Tactical Droid, General Grievous Droid Army Commander>

5. Bastila Shan, Jedi Master (Old Republic) She's a decent little Jedi on her own with double attack, lightsaber assault, lightsaber defense and renewal, but her attacking abilities rarely get used. She is all about her Advanced Battle Meditation. Leaps and bounds better than regular Battle Meditation - she basically creates board-wide disruptive - wiping out swaps, activation control, power boosts and any other commander effect by way of a force power. Oh yeah - if that alone were not enough, it also gives allies +10 damage. YIKES! <Honorable Mentions: Old Republic Senator, Carth Onasi Old Republic Soldier, Jedi Battlemaster, Jedi Seer, Atton "Jaq" Rand, Mira, Master Thon>

4. Yammosk War Coordinator. (Yuuzhan Vong) One of the biggest things holding back the Vong was that they were so special ability dependent, and many of those SA's were granted by other Vong, and often range 6. No Booming voice in this faction either. Well - with one easy swoop - the Yuuzhan Vong War Coordinator changed that. Now Yuuzhan Vong specific SAs and all CEs are unlimited range. Wow - easily worth it's 15 points alone. But that's not all - now with Telepathic Insight you can "steal" an opponents commander effect. Want a movement breaker like your opponent? Steal that swap. Facing activation control? Now you have it too! Oh - and Bastila can't turn your CEs off, because you are force immune. <Honorable Mentions: Yuuzhan Vong Worker, Nom Anor, Yomin Carr, Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter>

3. General Dodonna. (Rebel) One activation or two, whichever suits your needs. Holy crap this is huge! The importance and dominance of this CE cannot be understated. It's the only thing that keeps Rebels and NR competitive. I would have given Dodonna the NR spot as well, but I didn't want to give him 2 spots (and Ganner is massive). He has spawned more dissent and bitching than virtually any piece in the game. There is no rational argument that he is not worth his cost in a top tier 200 pt squad. If that CE were ever to go to the Republic or Old Republic - nobody could touch them. <Honorable Mentions: General Rieekan, Elite Rebel Commando, Princess Leia, (too many awesome Lukes to pick one)>

2. R2-D2 Astromech Droid. (Republic) Show me a Republic squad that you think is competitive without this piece and I will simply laugh. Since he first came out he has been so dominant as to be an auto include in every Republic Squad. Override is of very great importance, but tow cable just makes him sick. Helping this faction solidify itself as "The movement breaker faction" early on - whenever I make a competitive republic squad, the question really is how do I spend the last 191 points. <Honorable Mentions: Mas Amedda, Captain Panaka, Yoda on Kybuck, General Skywalker, Mace Windu, Legacy of the Light Side, General Obi-Wan Kenobi>

1. Lobot. (Fringe) Old school from the UNIVERSE set. So much more than just override (although that is huge). He is so important in the meta these days, helping you bring in that last bit of tech to defuse those Nom Bombs, or blow through those mouse walls. He can help with activations of bring in another slugger. It's a rare top tier competitive squad that I build without him (Republic being one of the few factions where it happens, but he's even handy there.) <Honorable Mentions: R7 Astromech Droid, Ugnaught Demolitionist, Rodian Brute, Mouse Droid - all often brought in by Lobot>



You'll notice my list is mostly tech. Even the beefier pieces on the list are included for what they do other then attack. That is because tech is the key to winning games. Even though there has been a design team push to bring beatsticks up to par, tech still rules the day.

My challenge - make a top tier competitive squad without any of these pieces, and prove that it is top tier by doing well in a Regional or GenCon.

Love to hear feedback. I'm sure I missed some honorable mentions.


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:37 am 
Master of the Order
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I like your list, except for Lobot. I think Wuher took a lot of his steam out of him. His best use was/is the 10-mouse dump, but you won't be doing that with Wuher at the other end of the battlefield.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:44 am 
Death Star Designers
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I like your list, except for Lobot. I think Wuher took a lot of his steam out of him. His best use was/is the 10-mouse dump, but you won't be doing that with Wuher at the other end of the battlefield.


I disagree. If I see wuher on the other end I can still get 6 acts out of Lobot. Only now those 6 characters can attack too!

Lobots utility only goes up with good sub 20 cost shooters around. If someone has Tyber Zann and a bunch of fodder I'm bringing in Momow Nadan and a noble. If they have a ton of Melee I'll consider Greedo BH and an Uggie. Lobot will always be good.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:50 am 
Master of the Order
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I like your list, except for Lobot. I think Wuher took a lot of his steam out of him. His best use was/is the 10-mouse dump, but you won't be doing that with Wuher at the other end of the battlefield.


Completely disagree that his best use was the 10 mouse dump. I usually never use that. Bring in mouse droids? Yes. 10 through Lobot? No. MTBs, Treadwelll Droids, R7s, Salacious Crumb, Momaw Nadon, Rodian Brutes, uggies, Amanin Scouts, etc.

My very typical reinforcement with a separatist squad was 6 mice and an MTB. Now it will be 4 uggies and an MTB. With Imperials it's usually an Amanin Scout, Rodian and a Gran. No change there.

While Wuher does effect things, I think he won't be in most top tier squads. The points you spend on him in your squad will more than compensate in my favor for how he effects my squad.


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:50 am 
Master of the Order
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Weeks wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I like your list, except for Lobot. I think Wuher took a lot of his steam out of him. His best use was/is the 10-mouse dump, but you won't be doing that with Wuher at the other end of the battlefield.


I disagree. If I see wuher on the other end I can still get 6 acts out of Lobot. Only now those 6 characters can attack too!

Lobots utility only goes up with good sub 20 cost shooters around. If someone has Tyber Zann and a bunch of fodder I'm bringing in Momow Nadan and a noble. If they have a ton of Melee I'll consider Greedo BH and an Uggie. Lobot will always be good.



Well said, by the guy who went undefeated in the GenCon World championship swiss rounds last year without him.

But - obviously you recognize his power. And my note that Republic is the one faction you can do without him in is a nod to you last year.


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:03 pm 
Master of the Order
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I have always looked at Lobot as a character that guarantees my opponent 27 easy points the minute he does anything substantial (ie Overrides a door). So I prefer to make damn sure the Reinforcements component can make up for that.

Tim, some of those pieces you mention are just as easily hosed by Wuher and Zann.

For example, I will take your 3 Ugnaughts and laugh my ass off as you struggle to deal with the MTB. You are good enough at this game that you probably won't go ahead with that option, but not everyone thinks ahead like that - a lot of people don't build multiple options into their Reinforcements pool.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:06 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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I disagree to I am more willing to play lobot now that Tyber and others are out there. I will not play the mouse dumb just never needed that extra two acts. I play mid round swaps and figure I can out play my opp 75% of the time so I can get the act count back in my favor. Thats what I did with Arica and Yodabuck in 2010.

I use Lobot for the tools he brings not the mouse dumb for a few extra acts.


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:09 pm 
Master of the Order
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I have always looked at Lobot as a character that guarantees my opponent 27 easy points the minute he does anything substantial (ie Overrides a door). So I prefer to make damn sure the Reinforcements component can make up for that.


That was more important when people were not playing for the full win. Now - the goal is to kill them all every time, so the points are less the focus. You always have to be careful with him. I usually keep him in the back and safely open doors for my own guys.

Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Tim, some of those pieces you mention are just as easily hosed by Wuher and Zann.


I wouldn't say hosed. Obviously you have to take each situation as it comes. That IS the power of Lobot - ultimate flexibility.

Opponent has Zann? Bring in a Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo or Momaw Nadon which he cannot steal. Does he have less than 6 or 7 scrubs to burn in his base squad? Bring in your MTB and laugh if he steals it as he kills himself.

The only time I've seen people burned by bribery is when someone forgot their opponent has it. When you're concious of it you bring reinforcements to counter it. Wuher only hurts you if you have Gha, and even then only slightly.

Grand Moff Boris wrote:
not everyone thinks ahead like that - a lot of people don't build multiple options into their Reinforcements pool.


Mistake #1 with Lobot. Flexibility is what he brings, so having set reinforcements completely defeats his best attribute.


Last edited by TimmerB123 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Last edited by TimmerB123 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:14 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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What wuher really hurt was kazdan which I am not a fan of but Tyber fixes that


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:32 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I have always looked at Lobot as a character that guarantees my opponent 27 easy points the minute he does anything substantial (ie Overrides a door). So I prefer to make damn sure the Reinforcements component can make up for that.

Tim, some of those pieces you mention are just as easily hosed by Wuher and Zann.

For example, I will take your 3 Ugnaughts and laugh my ass off as you struggle to deal with the MTB. You are good enough at this game that you probably won't go ahead with that option, but not everyone thinks ahead like that - a lot of people don't build multiple options into their Reinforcements pool.


This is one of the big reasons he is useful. You can use Lobot to your advantage. When I first started playing that was one of the big leasons I learned from Billiv15. Use Lobot to draw out someone you want to kill.

I did this at Gencon with my Mas Ameda. Exposed Mas to draw Han GH close to my guys who can easily kill him (at the time it was General Skywalker and Yobuck). Even if you lose a captial piece like Mas or Lobot you can force your opponent into a trap. I won that game btw because han overexposed, the battle was taking place in a small area anyway so the within 6 swap restriction didnt hurt too much.

As far a the Wuher and Zann comments you are exactly right on. If someone doesn't plan ahead they could end up killing themselves when you steal his MTB's fodder. Nothing is in stone that he has to bring in the MTB though. If I saw Wuher or Zann across from me I'd have a plan in action to deal with them. Depending on what I'm facing I'll more then likely grab someone from Cantina Brawl and use them. So, if I take Greedo and an uggie by all means you can have my uggie if you want.

This is a little off topic but I will say that Lobot isn't totally nessesary in T1 builds. He is super useful I'll give you that but sometimes (but not always) your squad can actually work out better if you don't use him. My Gencon squad was built to handle everything (it was skybuck with Rex instead of Dash). I chose Rex so I could win the mirror match vs regular Skybuck, which was a good thing as I beat both Bill and Spryguy in swiss (both made top 8). If I would have taken Lobot i would have had 7 base activations and could get up to 13. Meaning I would be outacted by regular Skybuck (base 9 top 15 acts) AND also be outacted by everything else under the sun. By forgoing Lobot I got up to base 15 acts, which forced the 2 other skybucks to either match my activations or bring in Bodyguards to absorb my damage output. In both cases they went with the latter and I was able to win by never giving their dashes good targets and by hiding my squishies so they couldnt be galloped.

So, there are times when you want to not take Lobot but they are tipically few and far between. My rule of thumb is if your only way of getting the fodder you need for your squad is from Lobot then you shouldn't use him. Basically, if your squad can work without Lobot bringing in anything then your good to use him. If you rely on what he brings in its too easy now for people to counter your plan with Wuher or Zann.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Well, I'll take you up on the challenge. My squad for Lansing doesn't have any of the top ten you listed. I can't wait to get it into a competitive field to see how it does.


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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Tim, I was thinking about this one - why Revan over Zannah for the Sith faction?

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Weeks wrote:
So, there are times when you want to not take Lobot but they are tipically few and far between. My rule of thumb is if your only way of getting the fodder you need for your squad is from Lobot then you shouldn't use him. Basically, if your squad can work without Lobot bringing in anything then your good to use him. If you rely on what he brings in its too easy now for people to counter your plan with Wuher or Zann.

Some of the best squad-building advice that I've read in a long time.

People often used to talk about people using Boba BH, and then Dodonna, as a crutch. I think a similar thing can be said for Lobot. If you build him into your squad correctly, he's excellent; if you don't, he'll often end up being more of a liability. Decide what you want your squad to do, and then decide if Lobot will help or hinder you in that goal.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:54 pm 
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I have won 2 Regionals and made 2 GenCon top 8s and made multiple other regional T4 finishes and have only used Lobot in 1 of the regional T4 squads.

I personally despise Lobot and would rather just build the squad correctly from the onset. It often lets your squad perform better overall even if it loses something in one specific matchup.

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:08 pm 
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This is funny that it comes up now, Im finalizing out my squad and having a big debate over Lobot.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:10 pm 
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urbanjedi wrote:
I have won 2 Regionals and made 2 GenCon top 8s and made multiple other regional T4 finishes and have only used Lobot in 1 of the regional T4 squads.

I personally despise Lobot and would rather just build the squad correctly from the onset. It often lets your squad perform better overall even if it loses something in one specific matchup.


Your the only one i can think of that has beaten tim's challenge. Double Lancer has neither a BDO or Lobot in it. You Win!

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 Post subject: Re: List the top 10 pieces
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Hulk Smash!!!

Hulk Smash Stupid Tech. LOL

If Hulk could just use Thor's hammer then he would really smash the tech.

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