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 Post subject: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:51 am 
Sith Apprentice
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What a great weekend for SWM in Rochester, a big thanks to all those who braved the not so frosty weather in Sunny WNY. It was great seeing everyone again and to those whose couldn’t make it out this go round, there is always our Regional in April. Special thanks go out to Rob & Mike at Millennium for getting us setup on both days, as it was pretty crazy on Sunday with that Yu-Gi-Oh regional event. There were many positive comments made about the venue by a number of our participants. Also thanks go out to Urbanjedi, Engineer & thereisnotry for the additional prize support!

Hopefully everyone enjoyed the events and will visit us again.

The field saw (14) players, with the following faction mix…

(6) Old Republic
(2) Sith
(2) Vong
(1) Separatist
(1) Republic
(1) Imperial
(1) New Republic

The Squads….

“Yellow Dancer” by Jim McNaney (a.k.a. Darth_Jim on Bloomilk & swmgamers)

Darth Maul, Shadow Hunter
IG Lancer x2
HK-50 x4
BDO
Atris
GGDAC
Fieran D’an
R7 Astro x3
Houjix
Darth Sidious
Map choice: Grand Plaza

“Sabertoothed Tauntauns” by Josh Hinkel (a.k.a. Hinkbert on Bloomilk & swmgamers)

Lord Hoth AoL
Bastila Shan JM
Atton “Jaq”
Mira
Boba Fett BH
Zuckuss BH
Nomi Sunrider HotJO
Atris
Gha Nachkt
OR Sentator
R7 Astro x2
MSD x2
Map choice: Throne Room

“Eat Plasma! You filthy Animals” by Jack MacEwen (a.k.a. jak on Bloomilk)

Lord Hoth AoL
Boba Fett BH
Cad Bane
Zuckuss BH
Bastila Shan JM
Jedi Seer x2
GeonH Assassin
Tactical Officer
Rodian Trader
R7 Astro x2
Salacious Crumb
MSD x2
Mira
Map choice: Throne Room

“ORevan” by Trevor Peyton (a.k.a. thereisnotry on Bloomilk & swm)

Lord Hoth AoL
Boba Fett BH
Darth Revan, Sith Lord
Darth Malak, DLotS
Atton “Jaq”
Zuckuss BH
Bastila Shan JM
Jedi Crusader
Greedo, BH
Juggernaut War Droid
OR Senator
Rodian Brute
MSD x4
Map choice: Jedi Temple

“Big Letter T” by Kris McNaney (a.k.a. McNizzle on Bloomilk & swmgamers)

Lord Hoth AoL
Boba Fett BH
Darth Revan, Sith Lord
Darth Malak, DLotS
Atton “Jaq”
Zuckuss BH
Bastila Shan JM
Jedi Crusader
Corellian Pirate
Human BG
Han Solo, Gambler
R7 Astro
MSD x4
Map choice: Throne Room

“Typical Shan Squad” by Corey Budwine (a.k.a. pastorbudwine on Bloomilk)

Lord Hoth AoL
Boba Fett BH
Bastila Shan JM
Zuckuss BH
Master Thon
Mira
Cad Bane
OR Senator
R7 Astro
Lobot, CLO
MSD x4
Uggie Demo
Map choice: Commercial Spaceport

“Salacious Crumb” by Patrick Dioguardi (a.k.a. patar7 on Bloomilk)

Lord Hoth AoL
Bastila Shan JM
Master Kavar
Jarael
Brianna
Atris
Echani Hand x4
Salacious Crumb
Atton Rand
Wicket
The Revanchist
MSD
Map choice: Rancor Pit

“Bane Train” by Chris Cook (a.k.a. christophercook on Bloomilk)

Darth Bane in Orbalisk Armor
Ulic Qel-Droma
Darth Zannah
Darth Sidious Hologram
Atton “Jaq”
Mandalore the Ultimate
Cassus Fett
Mando Capt
Mando CIO
Zuckuss BH
R7 Astro
MSD x3
Uggie Demo
Map choice: Theed Palace

“NY Tournament 500” by Nason Soehnlin

Darth Bane in Orbalisk Armor
Darth Revan, Sith Lord
Darth Malak, DLotS
Darth Zannah
Darth Caedus
Darth Bandon
Exar Kun DFS
Vergere
Celeste Morne
R7 Astro
MSD
Uggie Demo x2
Map choice: Grand Plaza

“Those Darn Jedi” by Ian Gordon (a.k.a. Jester007 on Bloomilk & swmgamers)

Yoda LotLS
FlObi
Atris
Jedi WM x7
Gungan Shieldbearer x2
Doombot
Mas Amedda
Human BG
Uggie Demo
Map choice: Rhen Var Citadel

“Rancors in Bubbles” by Kris Soehnlin (a.k.a. DarthMalus on Bloomilk)

Darth Vader LotDS
Nightsister on Rancor
HK-47 AD
GA Thrawn
General Weir
Mof Nyna Calixte
GA Pellaeon
Storm Commando x2
Mas Amedda
Bothan Saboteur
R7 Astro
Rodian Brute
Map choice: Smuggler’s Base

“I still like Vong” by Joe Langton (a.k.a. Juice Man on Bloomilk)

Czulkang Lah
Warmaster Tsavong Lah
Cad Bane
Prefect Da’Gara
Nom Anor
Jaken, Most High Priest
Nen Yim
YV Ossus Guard
YV on Quednak x2
Yammosk War Coord
YV Hunter
Advance Agent Officer
Advance Scout x2
Map choice: Throne Room

“Lah Bros” by Luke Cook (a.k.a. YobuckKiller on Bloomilk)

Czulkang Lah
Warmaster Tsavong Lah
Cad Bane
Prefect Da’Gara
Nom Anor
Jaken, Most High Priest
Nen Yim
YV Ossus Guard
YV on Quednak x2
Yammosk War Coord
YV Hunter
Advance Agent Officer
Advance Scout x2
Map choice: Bothan Spynet

“Mara’s Gambit” by Dean Dioguardi

Mara Jade GH
GMLS
Jaina Solo SotJ
KKJBM
Leia Skywalker JK
Boba Fett BH
Cad Bane
R7 Astro
MSD x2
Map choice: Commander’s Office

Final Standings:

Name W/L Swiss Points

1. McNizzle (Kris McNaney) 5-1 10
2. thereisnotry (Trevor Peyton) 5-1 12
3. Hinkbert (Josh Hinkel) 3-2 9
4. Jester007 (Ian Gordon) 2-3 8
5. DarthMalus (Kris Soehnlin) 3-1 7
6. Darth_Jim (Jim McNaney) 2-2 7
7. patar7 (Patrick Dioguardi) 2-2 7
8. YobuckKiller (Luke Cook) 2-2 6
9. pastorbudwine (Corey Budwine) 2-2 5
10. Juice Man (Joe Langton) 2-2 5
11. Dean G. (Dean Dioguardi) 1-3 4
12. Nason S. (Nason Soehnlin) 1-3 3
13. Christophercook (Chris Cook) 1-3 2
14. jak (Jack MacEwen) 0-4 0

Semis:

McNizzle v. Hinkbert
thereisnotry v. Jester007

Final:

thereisnotry v. McNizzle

Sportsmanship Award:

patar7

Best outcry in anguish, after having their Epic disintegrated by Boba Fett BH:
jak

Results & Squads from the Sunday 200pt constructed will be posted tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:07 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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First off, had a great time at the tourney(getting there was a different story). Gerry, you did a great job putting it together. I don't know who your connection in the weather department is, but thanks for keeping the snow to a minimum. Awesome hospitality, awesome sportsmanship, awesome competition! All in all an awesome weekend!

I think we should add:

BEST USE OF MOTF3:
McNizzle
"oops!"

I was surprised at the fact that I was the only Imp build. I really thought double bubble would have better representation than it did. Especially since, IMO, it is the only build that can really compete w/the OR Boba BH/Hoth/Zuckuss build.

Another clarification:
I had 2x Nightsister on Rancor's

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:00 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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I had a really fun time on Saturday! 500pt Epic SWM is by far my favorite format, and we had a great group of guys to enjoy it with.
I played a squad which I had almost brought to the tourney in PA a few months ago:

--ORevan--
138 Lord Hoth, Leader of the Army of Light
62 Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter
62 Darth Revan, Sith Lord
49 Darth Malak, Dark Lord of the Sith
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
35 Zuckuss, Bounty Hunter
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
23 Jedi Crusader
17 Greedo, Bounty Hunter
16 Juggernaut War Droid
14 Old Republic Senator
12 Mouse Droid x4
03 Rodian Brute
(500pts. 16 activations)
My map was Jedi Temple…it virtually gives me an auto-win vs any non-OR squad.

Round 1: vs Luke Cook (Vong)
Luke Cook is the 2011 Ontario Regional Champion. He was playing a powerful Vong squad, which I would’ve dearly loved to play myself, if the OR wasn’t so dominant. I won the map roll, and Luke set up on the inside (left). That was certainly the correct choice by him, but it really didn’t make all that much of a difference. He also chose to steal Hoth’s +10dmg vs adjacent CE, but he never got to use it. To start, I had Zuckuss set up in line with the top-most door on the map, and Intuition-ed forward to begin the round. Luke went first, and then a mouse opened that door for me, and Bastilla ABM’ed. On my next activation, Zuckuss ran out to do a FA, hitting about 10-12 pieces and gluing them to the ground. Malak’s CE really helped here. Then I took care of some doors, which allowed me next round to run Revan 20 squares and swap in Boba, who found the perfect FA spot, and shot everyone on the Vong squad, minus about 1 or 2 pieces. I only got 1 disintegration, against an Ossus Guardian that Zuckuss had not glued previously in the round. Luke could do nothing in response, since all his guys were stuck, and so after winning init next with Revan’s MT round (I had Zuckuss’ Anticipation in case I rolled a 1), Boba FA’ed again, and there were almost no pieces left…during that FA, he disintegrated Luke’s Warmaster, who was at 130hp or so. At this point Luke was able to kill Boba off, but the game was already pretty much over, since he had lost all his tech (Yammosk, Yomin, AAO, Priest, Shaper, etc) and his last 2 Ossus Guardians died that round. Luke didn’t make any mistakes at all…he just never stood a chance against the Furious Assaults of Zuckuss and Boba combined with Master Tactician. The damage bonus from Bastilla’s ABM more than neutralized the crab armor. Some people say that Vong are dynamite in 500pts…if it weren’t for Lord Hoth, I’d agree. They just can’t compete when Zuckuss glues most of their squad to the ground, and then Boba comes in to decimate them with 2 Furious Assaults in a row. 1-0, 3pts

Round 2 vs Patrick Dioguardi (OR Echanis)
Patrick won the map roll, so we played on his Rancor Pit map. I chose to set up in the safe area on the right. He probably should’ve turned on ABM sooner than he did, since I was able to run Revan out at the end of round 1 and FA his whole squad (rolling several 1s and no 20s). Then I won init the next round with MT and did it again. This killed off all of the echanis and the fodder, and it also weakened every piece. Then his Bastilla popped ABM, and my Boba went down…but he had done his job, and the damage was done. At this point it was mostly a normal SWM game, since we both had ABM going, and so we had no FAs or Revan-swaps to work with. I think he took down my Crusader and another piece, but this match was over pretty quickly too. 2-0, 6pts

Round 3 vs Kris McNaney (OR mirror match)
This was one matchup I had been worried about, since I had lost to Kris’ squad a few months ago in November. I won the map roll, but I knew that I couldn’t afford to give Kris the advantage of the inside on Jedi Temple, so I chose his map (Throne Room). He deferred to me, so I chose the left. This was a really fun match, and very close…a cat-and-mouse kind of thing, with careful timing and all that good stuff. The turning point came near the beginning of round 3, when both of our Bastilla’s ABMs were on cooldown. I ran Zuckuss up to FA several of his pieces and glue them to the ground. This then gave me the freedom to set up kill shots on several of his pieces, which eventually turned the tide of the game and gave me the victory. It’s hard to remember everything, since we ended up having a rematch later on the same map, and playing from the same sides. Either way, I scored a 3pt win and Kris got 1pt for scoring 250pts in the game. 3-0, 9pts

At this point I was the only 3-0 player, so the Swiss rounds probably should’ve ended. But oh well, we played a 4th round. I knew I would be in the Top 4 anyway, so I played a little more fast-and-loose-and-risky than I would’ve otherwise.

Round 4 vs Ian Gordon, 2011 Gencon Champion (Republic JWMs and Shieldbearers)
This was the other matchup that I had been worried about, since those darn Shieldbearers can spell death for my Furious Assaulters. And they nearly did. Ian won the map roll and so we played on his Rhen Var Citadel; I chose the left and Ian hid Atris and Mas in the rooms to the right for the entire game. He had half of his attackers set up on the north end of that side, so that they could walk straight west into the safety of the corridors. This group, which included R2 and Yoda, was centered around a Shieldbearer and a bodyguard. The second group approached from the door in the middle of the building and ascended the steps in the middle of the citadel. At the end of Round 1, I popped ABM and made a gutsy move, which ended up really being the turning point in the game: with Revan’s help I swapped my Crusader in deep on Ian’s side, and had her charge into his exposed (non-bodyguarded) Shieldbearer. I had to give up 2 aoos to JWMs, but killing off that Shieldbearer (and damaging the others for 30) was huge. Next round I won init with MT. I was planning to go after R2 and some other pieces, but Ian made an excellent move, using Flobi’s Surprise Move to block the way. Now I had nothing I could do except double-attack the JWM I was adjacent to. My first roll was a miss, so I used a FP…crit! He failed the block. Then I rolled my next attack…crit! That’s a dead JWM (it was damaged the last round). My Crusader ended up dying, but she more than did her job, taking down a Shieldbearer and a JWM all by herself. As I said, I was willing to take risks this game since I knew I’d be in the Top 4 whether I won or lost. At the end of Round 2 I took a huge risk with Boba…I FA’ed vs almost all of his pieces. I was taking a huge gamble, needing to kill the bodyguard and the Shieldbearer if I wanted to avoid killing myself on the shield saves. My first 2 rolls (vs the bodyguard) were 2s, so I missed. Then I failed at 1 of the shield saves vs the Shieldbearer (the one that got through was BG’ed), so Boba was at 90 hp. I knew Boba would die in this barrage, so I then targeted the most important pieces next, hoping to do some good damage before I died. Flobi was first, and I disintegrated him (Huge!)…but failed the shield roll, so I took 50dmg (40 for the crit, +10 for ABM) back in my own face. Then I attacked Yoda and a JWM before my horrible shield saves did me in. But next round, Zuckuss more than proved his worth. He started the round with a FA that hit all of Ian’s guys…he didn’t miss once…and so every single one of his pieces was stuck for the entire round. And to top it off, Zuckuss’ shield saves were amazing…they made up for Boba’s horrible dice. I was able to do some damage to Ian’s pieces, most notably a Lightning shot from Malak standing 7 squares away from Yoda’s Force Defense; that zap killed the last Shieldbearer. That was huge, since it allowed my 20hp Zuckuss to glue everyone with awesome dice again when I won init the next round. At this point most of Ian’s pieces were heavily damaged, and my Revan/Hoth/Malak/Greedo boys were able to finish off the republic without too much difficulty. It was a difficult game, because Ian positioned his pieces so well…if it weren’t for Zuckuss, I’m pretty sure I would’ve lost. 12pts for me, and a MVP Commendation for Zuckuss (couldn’t resist a SWTOR reference there!).

Semi-finals: Ian again! Uh oh.
Once again Ian won the map roll, and I once again started on the left. I knew Ian would be ready to defend against my Kamikaze Crusader, so I knew I would have to use a different tactic in the first round. After Ian had moved his Yoda and R2 away from the Shieldbearer/Bodyguard, I used Revan to throw Zuckuss up there, so that Zuckuss could stick the pieces that hadn’t moved yet. ABM was going, so he was doing 30dmg shots…not coincidentally, that was perfect for R2! I started my FA on the pieces that were separate from the Shieldbearer, but missed the shot vs R2…I used a FP to reroll—but Ian cancelled it with Yoda! Great move on Ian’s part, and dumb by me to not double-check Yoda’s range beforehand. So R2 lived. Before Zuckuss shot himself to death from the shields, I was able to hit a few other pieces, gluing the BG and the Shieldbearer, as well as a JWM. This allowed Boba to take a big risk: he ran up and positioned himself so he could see just 3 pieces for a FA…I made sure I couldn’t see more than that. He shot and killed the BG, as well as the Shieldbearer, from my side of the map. Then the Senator gave Boba another shot, which put some extra damage on the JWM that I had LOS to. So it turned out that my gamble with Zuckuss almost paid off: I was able to isolate and kill a Shieldbearer and its BG, even though I failed the crucial kill shot on R2. The next round, Ian once again moved his mass of troops to the center room. Boba tried to snipe the last Shieldbearer but failed both shield saves…this brought him to 20 hp, so I really couldn’t afford to attack with him again until the Shieldbearer was gone. I was in a bit of a difficult situation here, because Zuckuss was gone and Greedo’s glue gun would be less effective since it was not accurate. However, I was able to once again maneuver Malak into position, 7 squares from Yoda, where he could zap a piece that was adjacent to the Shieldbearer. That freed up Boba to FA again the next round, which did some good damage. At one point, I made a dumb mistake by moving my Brute to within 6 of Yoda for an attack on a JWM, which meant that Yoda now had Ataru Style Mastery going. Ian pounced on this and used the big LS Throw to target Malak (down to 80 hp) and Hoth and the Brute. Killing Malak would’ve made a huge difference here, because he allowed me to hit those darn JWMs more easily. However, without thinking about it, Ian chose to attack the Brute first, which made him lose ASM. D’oh! So Malak survived another round, to zap again. Then, after Boba FA’ed a final time, the game was pretty much over. Yoda went down, then 2 JWMs the next round, and then it was Flobi (who hadn’t failed a single SSM save all game) out in the middle of the map, and Mas and Atris, who were making their way out of hiding and into the fray. Boba went in to FA vs them (killing Mas), but I foolishly left him adjacent to Atris, and behind a closed door. Boba would have no place to hide from Atris after attacking her for 60 the next round! But then I realized that Revan could run 18 to that door, open it, and swap himself for Boba. If Boba had died, I’m not sure how quickly I would’ve been able to take Flobi down. As it was, I killed Atris and reached the point total with Flobi left at 60hp or so, and out of force points. We played it out, and Flobi did eventually go down, but all his SSM saves made Lord Hoth look like a noob. 5-0 now, and on to the finals.

Finals: Kris McNaney again
At this point I was totally exhausted…2 challenging games in a row vs the reigning Gencon Champ, and a tight mirror-match beforehand, will do that to ya! And of course, who do I face in the final? Kris…again. We faced each other in the finals of the PA tournament in November, and here we were again. The difference was that this time I had a squad that could compete with the OR. :) I had already beaten Kris that day, but nothing is guaranteed in a mirror-match when both players know their squads inside-and-out, which we certainly did. This game, Kris tried a bit of a different tactic: in round 1 he used Revan to throw Boba up front for a FA vs about 10 of my pieces. It did decent damage and killed 2 of my mice, but his Boba ended up dying for it. Later on in the game, however, that extra damage on my pieces made a big difference. The next round, Kris did a similar thing with Zuckuss, who had miserable rolls (two 1s out of five attacks). However, I made a dumb move with Revan, swapping him to be within 16 of Kris’ Lord Hoth, who charged in to kill Revan when I failed the blocks. Kris then left his Revan just a little bit too far forward, and my Boba attacked him with a hit and a…crit! Revan was disintegrated, and it looked like I was in good position to win. However, Kris’ Hoth was still at full hp, while mine had 60 dmg on him. Kris won the next init and retreated his Hoth back to safety, and I didn’t pounce on him soon enough. I was planning to charge in and hit him for 90 with my Hoth, but I waited too long and Kris was able to place a fodder wall in just the right place so that I couldn’t reach him…and besides, I couldn’t risk losing my wounded Hoth too early. I won the next init and FA’ed with my 90hp Boba. I missed Hoth (soon to be a pattern for my pieces) but hit pretty much everything else. Then Kris zapped 3 of my guys with his Malak, bringing Hoth down to 60hp, Boba down to 60, and my Crusader down to 50. Afterward he wished that he had used ABM instead, but it was too late. So his Hoth moved in and used LS sweep to hit the 3 pieces that Malak had just zapped. With Impulsive JH he killed my Hoth and Crusader easily since I couldn’t roll a save if the game depended on it, which it did. And then he used Precision twice to take off the last 60 hp from Boba. At this point in the middle of the map it was just my Malak and Atton and fodder vs his mostly-full-health Hoth and Crusader and Malak. I won the next init and killed his Malak with my Malak, but that was it for me…Malak died afterward, followed by my fodder and finally Atton and Bastilla. Kris ended the game with a mostly-full-health Hoth, and Bastilla, a BG, and a Crusader. It was disappointing for me, since I was winning at one point during the game and lost because I didn’t play aggressively enough. Sometimes you just have to go balls-to-the-wall and see how things look when the dust settles. Much kudos and respect to Kris, for being able to battle back and grab the victory after being down in the match.



While neither of us recognized it at the time, Kris made an illegal move to kill Boba. Hoth has MotF2, but on that pivotal attack, Kris’ Hoth used a FP to Sweep, and then TWO more FP for Precision. If we’d done that correctly, my Boba would’ve survived with 10 hp (only 1 FP for Precision); I ended up winning the next init, which would’ve allowed me to step away from Hoth and do some damage to him (removing Niman Mastery), perhaps even disintegrate him. Without a disintegration I’m pretty sure I still would’ve lost, though, so it’s not the end of the world. It is just anti-climactic to know that the game was decided on an illegal move. I didn’t even know about it until Sunday morning.
I was so exhausted after this that I went home to rest (Braveheart was playing on TV!) and prepare for the next day. That report will be coming soon.

So I finished 2nd place, 5-1. I had a blast during this tournament. Big thanks to Gerry (DarphNader) for organizing it!




Before I go, I have just 1 thing to say: IMO, something must be done about Bastilla in the Epic 500pt format. She just dominates the game. Hoth is already plenty good enough: I think that my game reports have shown the dominance of FA'ing Zuckuss and Boba, combined with Revan. Even Vong (who Bastilla doesn't really neuter) cannot compete with OR because of Zuckuss' FA. And the rest of the factions are in just as poor shape. Whether we adjust the impact of ABM for this format so that it 1) only grants the damage bonus or 2) only affects a single CE, or 3) whatever, she's just too dominant. It's sad--and telling--to see half of the squads be OR in a format where all 9 factions should be able to compete decently well. I know I've built some dynamite Epic squads for each faction...I also know that none of them can handle the OR well enough to compete at the top level.

I had really wanted to play my Sith squad, and I almost brought it...but then I realized the power of the OR on Jedi Temple, and my decision was made for me. I had a really cool Republic squad too, but Bastilla's ABM would spell disaster. And I knew my Vong squad would be really strong, but that Zuckuss' FA would cripple it (literally!).

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:02 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Darth Malus wrote:
I was surprised at the fact that I was the only Imp build. I really thought double bubble would have better representation than it did. Especially since, IMO, it is the only build that can really compete w/the OR Boba BH/Hoth/Zuckuss build.

It can compete IF you can keep Pallaeon alive...and with Revan propelling Boba so far forward, that is a difficult thing to do.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Congratulations, that's a very cool squad. Great use of the Jedi Crusader.

Both Vong squads played are interesting, but neither are what I would play. I really think in this format the way to go is just a swarm of Jedi Hunters and Ossus Guardians. It takes careful placement, but I still maintain that they can beat most OR squads. Especially if you get to play on Asteroid Base; then I really don't think the OR stands a chance.

Other than that matchup, though, I agree that OR is probably the strongest. After looking at your squad, Trevor, I think that one of the best ways to handle it is to keep the 3 CE limit, and then have Bastila count as a commander in this format. That way you get her and Lord Hoth, but then you get either Revan for your movement or Malak for the extra attack; without Revan it's much harder to get the devastating FAs, and without Malak it makes the FAs that you DO get much less devastating (more misses!). This suggestion is just off the top of my head, but that might help swing the power away from the OR.

Jedi Temple IS an incredibly powerful map for the OR in particular. Maybe we should have a separate map list for this format?

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:24 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Echo wrote:
After looking at your squad, Trevor, I think that one of the best ways to handle it is to keep the 3 CE limit, and then have Bastila count as a commander in this format.
...
Jedi Temple IS an incredibly powerful map for the OR in particular. Maybe we should have a separate map list for this format?

I agree 100% on both counts:

If Bastilla counts as a commander (as the Yammosk does, if I understand correctly) then that goes a long way. However, my squad would still be Bastilla/Hoth/Revan, which is plenty powerful. My original version dropped Malak for Mira, which is yet another Twin-Accurate-FA piece. The Malak version is probably stronger, but not THAT much stronger...in fact, the Mira version is probably stronger in the mirror-match, since ABM will be nerfing Malak's CE.

And yes, Accurate Shot + Furious Assault + Jedi Temple = Overpowered. Since the game is so different in this format, I think it's worth defining a different maplist for it.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Correction to the one Vong squad roster...

“Lah Bros” by Luke Cook (a.k.a. YobuckKiller on Bloomilk)

Czulkang Lah
Warmaster Tsavong Lah
Yomin Carr
Jaken, Most High Priest
Nen Yim
YV Ossus Guard x6
Praetorite Vong Warrior
Yammosk War Coord
Advance Agent Officer
Lobot CLO
R7 Astro
Map choice: Bothan Spynet

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:22 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Since the game is so different in this format, I think it's worth defining a different maplist for it.


I would agree that other map choice/restrictions should be made for this format. It is events such as the one Darth_Jim ran in Harrisburg and most recently at FrostyCon, which provide the actual play basis for such mods.

Initially, I was against the three CE limit but after what we've seen now in these two events my opinion has changed. The only issue I have have is treating Shan as a CE, when ABM is not. Banning the use of ABM as Disintegration is in the Epic Duo format would seem the more appropriate course of action. IMHO...

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Pretty poor set up even on that map to give up 10-12 FA targets. Further, now that I see the Vong squads that were run, why they struggled. Uphill battle for sure on that map, but it shouldn't have been as clear as it was. Now I understand why.

And I'm quite sorry, there is a very glaring mistake that Luke made right out of the gate. He should not have chosen side on Jedi Temple. That is a very very poor decision. Defer is the only call to make. Also, I see 0 reason to steal Hoth's CE in that matchup as well. Furious Assault, or a +4 attack would have been far better than an unnecessary +10 dmg. But ultimately, Revan's swap is what you should always take.

As for the squad, I can't imagine why a 500pt Vong squad would not include Nom or at least MT of its own. Excluding both and running against a top tier 500 with the best Commander we created is in fact a virtual autoloss (autolosses are amplified the higher the points go, most people don't realize this, but Dreadtech and Ugavine will confirm this, as they've talked about it over the years).

With that said, I've long agreed that 3 commanders should be the max. As for Bastilla and Yam counting as one (which under current rules they do not), that would be up to us to decide and play as we see fit. As it is, there are not "official" rules for these types of events in the current floorrules. We left it open for organizers to decide what's best.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:44 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
But ultimately, Revan's swap is what you should always take.



Stolen CE: At the end of this character's turn (the Yammosk), he may exchange positions with another ally of the same base size within 6 squares.

Does this even work with an emplaced character?

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:48 pm 
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R5Don4 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
But ultimately, Revan's swap is what you should always take.



Stolen CE: At the end of this character's turn (the Yammosk), he may exchange positions with another ally of the same base size within 6 squares.

Does this even work with an emplaced character?


good point lol, forgot that part. But yes, it could work with another huge if you had one I think. Take furious assault. Much better to force the opponent to spread out, for when you do get to charge in, even with melee pieces. Of course the fact that the vong squads lacked any range at all is part of the problem. Nom should have been an auto include. That would save Yomin, and at least one of the Ossus.

Also, need to use the Hunters. Better variety and less Ces would have made a much more dangerous and less map dependent squad.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:58 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
And I'm quite sorry, there is a very glaring mistake that Luke made right out of the gate. He should not have chosen side on Jedi Temple. That is a very very poor decision. Defer is the only call to make.

Really? If he had set up on the other side, then I could've hit EVERY SINGLE ONE of his pieces with both Boba and Zuckuss (I had counted the squares in preparation), since there would've been nothing blocking LOS at all. Vong are just toast on this map in the Epic format vs FA, no matter what.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:07 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
And I'm quite sorry, there is a very glaring mistake that Luke made right out of the gate. He should not have chosen side on Jedi Temple. That is a very very poor decision. Defer is the only call to make.

Really? If he had set up on the other side, then I could've hit EVERY SINGLE ONE of his pieces with both Boba and Zuckuss (I had counted the squares in preparation), since there would've been nothing blocking LOS at all. Vong are just toast on this map in the Epic format vs FA, no matter what.


I don't agree at all with that statement. Setting up second, he gets to see where you put Zuckuss. Then with his at least 3 moves before you can FA with Zuckuss, he can block your awesome spots by placing guys adjacent to those spaces. Then by having set up the others correctly, you have to stop short, and he has some safe guys.

As I said, I think it's an autoloss without cloaked or Nom on that map at 500pts, but he made it worse by not knowing what your squad could do and at least countering it partially.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
R5Don4 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
But ultimately, Revan's swap is what you should always take.



Stolen CE: At the end of this character's turn (the Yammosk), he may exchange positions with another ally of the same base size within 6 squares.

Does this even work with an emplaced character?


good point lol, forgot that part. But yes, it could work with another huge if you had one I think.


Emplacement: Cannot move or be moved. Set up anywhere on your half of the battle map.

Glossary Text

This character cannot move or be moved by another effect (such as Force Push), nor can its position be changed through other effects (such as Grand Admiral Thrawn's commander effect). You may set it up anywhere on your half of the battle map instead of in the normal starting area.



So good thing Luke didn't choose that CE to steal.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Lol, yes quite :)

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:43 am 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Darth Malus wrote:
I was surprised at the fact that I was the only Imp build. I really thought double bubble would have better representation than it did. Especially since, IMO, it is the only build that can really compete w/the OR Boba BH/Hoth/Zuckuss build.

It can compete IF you can keep Pallaeon alive...and with Revan propelling Boba so far forward, that is a difficult thing to do.

Well, that was why I included HK. I know he doesn't automatically nerf Revan, but played correctly, he can severley hamper the swap. BTW, I've also learned that Smugglers Base is not the ideal map for Imp swap bubbles in 500 epic....too much open space.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Kris, the other Kris... my son... pushed me off of Imperials for this tournament. Pellaeon is a great foil for Bastilla but when you add in Revan AND Hoth's CE, it became problematic keeping Pellaeon safe. I found Kris could put Boba or Zuckuss pretty much anywhere he wanted by round 2. Disruptive has a range of 6... Revan AND Hoth's CE gave Boba/ Zuckuss a range of up to 32. (34 if Zuckuss spends a fp.) He doesn't usually have to get in disruptive range to get a good FA. Further, if you put Boba in disruptive after the fact, he doesn't care. The amount of resources you're spending to kill him and the amount of damage Boba has done is worth the sacrifice. (Ask him... Kris was playing Boba much like a lancer is played... as a throw away piece.) I can't tell you how many times I killed Boba round 1 or 2 only to have the game devolve into responses, with that initial Boba damage eventually tipping the scales in his favor. For that reason, he doesn't care that you put him into disruptive... if he survives, he runs him out again and then does some more damage. If he doesn't... he just hits what you had to expose to take out Boba. A bodyguard is useless for Pellaeon... he just targets the bodyguard first. Now, I did try SS using a Mistral Shadow Guard and that slowed him down a bit, but when he could get FAs with multiple characters, trading even a couple of them to kill Pellaeon proved to be worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:11 pm 
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I agree that Bastila is alot to handle. In epic squads, there are ways to deal with her
the best way I've seen used to eliminate her, was when Dean just moved his epic :mj: Mara towards her until Mara could slice-n-dice Bastila in to tiny 'lil pieces

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:01 pm 
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RaginRancor wrote:
I agree that Bastila is alot to handle. In epic squads, there are ways to deal with her
the best way I've seen used to eliminate her, was when Dean just moved his epic :mj: Mara towards her until Mara could slice-n-dice Bastila in to tiny 'lil pieces

Thereby trading Epic Mara for 33pt Bastilla? I have no doubt it's a workable way to eliminate Bastilla...it's also very costly, and could cost you the game.

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 Post subject: Re: FrostyCon - Epic 500 Squads & Results
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:54 am 
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Kris, the other Kris... my son... pushed me off of Imperials for this tournament. Pellaeon is a great foil for Bastilla but when you add in Revan AND Hoth's CE, it became problematic keeping Pellaeon safe. I found Kris could put Boba or Zuckuss pretty much anywhere he wanted by round 2. Disruptive has a range of 6... Revan AND Hoth's CE gave Boba/ Zuckuss a range of up to 32. (34 if Zuckuss spends a fp.) He doesn't usually have to get in disruptive range to get a good FA. Further, if you put Boba in disruptive after the fact, he doesn't care. The amount of resources you're spending to kill him and the amount of damage Boba has done is worth the sacrifice. (Ask him... Kris was playing Boba much like a lancer is played... as a throw away piece.) I can't tell you how many times I killed Boba round 1 or 2 only to have the game devolve into responses, with that initial Boba damage eventually tipping the scales in his favor. For that reason, he doesn't care that you put him into disruptive... if he survives, he runs him out again and then does some more damage. If he doesn't... he just hits what you had to expose to take out Boba. A bodyguard is useless for Pellaeon... he just targets the bodyguard first. Now, I did try SS using a Mistral Shadow Guard and that slowed him down a bit, but when he could get FAs with multiple characters, trading even a couple of them to kill Pellaeon proved to be worth it.


Yeah, you're right.
I just wanted to believe that I had a chance. Thanks for bringing me painfully back to reality. :)

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