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 Post subject: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Reposting a Q from Darph Nader on Bloomilk, asking if the Nightsister Witch placed by Dismount counts for victory points.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:16 pm 
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swinefeld wrote:
Reposting a Q from Darph Nader on Bloomilk, asking if the Nightsister Witch placed by Dismount counts for victory points.


My guess is no. It is factored into the point cost, similar to reinforcements.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:27 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
My guess is no. It is factored into the point cost, similar to reinforcements.

That is my guess as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:35 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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The new character is considered to be like Reserves, so you would get victory points for her.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification, and for answering it on Bloo as well. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:31 pm 
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For future reference, unless it says that they don't, or are referred to as Reinforcements, they will cost Victory Points.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
For future reference, unless it says that they don't, or are referred to as Reinforcements, they will cost Victory Points.


Good to know, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:59 am 
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So I was wrong. Unfortunate news for characters with dismount, since I think they will see less use because of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.


Aren't raks brought in considered free?

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:33 pm 
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I'm on the fence with this one.

For 79 pts, you end up with 200hp and a lot of FP/lightning over Felcor, but the Nightsister can easily get wiped off the map in a single activation.

If the NS was free, you get a Felcor with +2 attack, +2 Force, and Lightning 2 for 45pts, then the sister's 60hp, +3 Force and Lightning, but weak otherwise.

Just costing it at 69 points would have been a pretty sweet upgrade to the Felcor. Not complaining since I didn't playtest; it is what it is.

I'm hoping to see more of "X on Y" giving an X when Y is defeated for some remakes of other existing characters. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:52 pm 
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urbanjedi wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.


Aren't raks brought in considered free?


Correct. Billiv's note may be a good guideline, but it isn't 100% accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:17 pm 
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swinefeld wrote:
I'm on the fence with this one.

For 79 pts, you end up with 200hp and a lot of FP/lightning over Felcor, but the Nightsister can easily get wiped off the map in a single activation.


You ignored that you are playing with a 50/50 shot at a 219 pt squad vs your opponent's 200. And while you gave the worst case scenario, I'll give the best. It's also equally likely that the NSW isn't whiped out in one activation, and that she's dropped in the perfect place to do her worst. It's much easier to pull of a good lightning than it is to have to cross the board first.

Come on, you aren't paying 79pts for it. Just like you aren't paying 150 for Kazdan to roll 4 reserves.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:19 pm 
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urbanjedi wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.


Aren't raks brought in considered free?


good point. That's why Sith Alchemy works that way as well.

But I view this more like an immediate reserve than the special case of the rak. Nevertheless, it was worth pointing that one out here.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:17 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
I'm on the fence with this one.

For 79 pts, you end up with 200hp and a lot of FP/lightning over Felcor, but the Nightsister can easily get wiped off the map in a single activation.


You ignored that you are playing with a 50/50 shot at a 219 pt squad vs your opponent's 200. And while you gave the worst case scenario, I'll give the best. It's also equally likely that the NSW isn't whiped out in one activation, and that she's dropped in the perfect place to do her worst. It's much easier to pull of a good lightning than it is to have to cross the board first.

Come on, you aren't paying 79pts for it. Just like you aren't paying 150 for Kazdan to roll 4 reserves.

Sure, those are valid points. I did indeed overlook the save in my comment, and there is potential advantage there in some cases, one being the option to not place the NS if circumstances warrant it.

Like I said, it is what it is. I'm fine with that. I'll be far more concerned about having just lost 62 points than the status of the extra unit. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:21 am 
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So placing the Sith Witch is optional? There are obvious examples when you would not want to place it.

Does it come in unactivated? Does it matter if NSW on Rancor had already activated?


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:47 am 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
So placing the Sith Witch is optional? There are obvious examples when you would not want to place it.

Does it come in unactivated? Does it matter if NSW on Rancor had already activated?


Placing it is not option. If you make the save, it must be placed. "Can" denotes ability to.

Like all reserves, it comes in unactivated, regardless of the activation status of the other piece.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:41 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
So placing the Sith Witch is optional? There are obvious examples when you would not want to place it.

Does it come in unactivated? Does it matter if NSW on Rancor had already activated?


Placing it is not option. If you make the save, it must be placed. "Can" denotes ability to.

Like all reserves, it comes in unactivated, regardless of the activation status of the other piece.


Ugh, I hate that "can"= "must" wording stuff.

Seriously, and this is only meant to be a constructive suggestion for future reference - the wording of Dismount could have avoided the ongoing ambiguity of this particular wording quirk by using something more like this:

Dismount: When this character is defeated, make a save of 11. On a success, add a character named... (you get the idea)

Efficiency over style in card text when it doesn't change how something works is desirable, IMO. :)

Also, I think that both the "counts as a reserve" and the non-optional placement if the save is made should be added to a glossary entry for Dismount, or at least stated in the FAQ.

/soapbox

and thanks for the clarifications :)


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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:51 am 
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Just for clarification, does this mean Obi Force Spirit is worth 8 points via Force Essence?

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 Post subject: Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:52 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Just for clarification, does this mean Obi Force Spirit is worth 8 points via Force Essence?


correct.

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