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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:04 pm 
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The actions of my character in my last post are a culmination of two things:

1) Dorian shoving my character out of the way. Nuuhatyc had made it clear to Dorian that he doesn't want to be threatened. He was already angry at the way he killed Raden. When Dorian pointed a blaster at him after this, he was justifiably angry.

Quote:
Forcing a smile Nuuhatyc says to Dorian so others can't hear and to not draw attention to himself "Of course. And if you point that blaster at me again, I gaurentee you won't be able to hold a blaster again for the rest of your pathetic life." Walking off towards the banquet hall, he purposefully bumps into Dorian's shoulder as he passes him and says "Contemplate that before you threaten me again!"


2) Dorian insulting my character. It stands to reason that in any campaign not everyone in the group will get along, especially if people constantly throw insults at each other.

Quote:
He looks to the Twi'lek and shakes his head. "Nuhhatyc, if you want a sex slave for yourself, I won't argue, but you are going to have to dig yourself out of this one. I'm done here."


To keep the game realistic, I posted what I did, cause that is what any character would do under extreme stress, physical violence, and insults in a delicate situation. All game long, Dorian has been insulting my character and it comes to a point where the character will react. Hopefully this is doesn't hurt the relations in the group to badly between my character and Jedi_Masters. After all, Dorian has to learn he can't speak trash to just anyone and get away with it. For example, what if Dorian insulted someone in a bar and caused a fight? He'd be putting everyone at risk. What if he insulted a crimelord, and because of that the crimelord sent bounty hunters at us? My point is that you can't just post anything you want without consquences. Of course if this is Dorians character to do this, Nuuhatyc and Dorian will probably keep on rubbing each other the wrong way. Not really sure what my character did to warrant all the insults though....... :roll:

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Last edited by obikenobi1 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:19 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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well you both might have a death wish if this keeps up............
Just saying O yeah now I am the leader now what..........


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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:33 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Can We buy a droid after we get off this planet so we can have something else posting than just the three of us? He would be the computer guy that we need badly.

Just a thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:48 am 
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obi,

Your actions, by the rules, start combat. If you wish to do so that is fine, but I will need a Int roll, and a stealth roll from you, and an Int roll and a Perception roll from Jedi_Master. If your Stealth beats his Perception you get to act during the surprise round.


Jonny,

Please remove your post until this matter is settled.

Also, you can purchase a droid, on this planet if you wont. You just have to be able to get out of the Hutts layer.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:06 am 
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No combat is nessesary. I have edited the post to be less combatitve. My character will just not listen to Dorian from now on, unless he is apologized to. Otherwise, he will not take anything Dorian says at face value as he believes it will only lead to more insults. Right now, Nuuhatyc will only really listen to what others have to say after this latest incident. Dorian's actions aren't exactly upbuilding if he wants Nuuhatycs help in the mission. If he gets pushed to far, he might just do his own thing and try and save his own skin and anyone elses he considers a friend. Personally, I'd like to see us complete this mission and actually work as a real team. Jedi_Master however must have different ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Finally i'm back, and not a moment too soon either!


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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:40 am 
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Since I never properly replied to this...*in a mario voice* here we go.

obikenobi1 wrote:
Just curious Kevin what blunders are you refering to that I should fix?

Quote:
Dorian gives Nuu a look and gives a slight laugh, "Oh ho ho, somebody is in charge now are they? Then I suppose you should work on fixing your own blunders."


This is the droid you are looking for:

obikenobi1 wrote:
Nuuhatyc says to Dorian while the wookie leaves, "Six-Six is coming to collect the information soon. He had said ealier in the discussion between Avran and myself that we could pay to keep the information ourselves at the standard rate. Since we haven't been able to decrypt the information yet, it might be best to just pay for the information and keep it ourselves. I had said to Six Six that we'd share it, but we could say we changed our mind and decided the information was worth buying. Something like that anyways. I have no clue what this standard rate is, he didn't tell me. He assumed we all knew how much to pay."


And for the billionth time I feel a need to remind you, stop taking things in this game as personal affronts. YOU don't need to fix anything, Nuu does.

Quote:
And I don't think you are the the only person who can talk in this group either. Nobody made you the leader of the group. You may be the the leader of our cover as regards to Darga, but not on this mission. On this mission we all have a roll, and all of us can contribute. This is roll playing. Not Dorian-playing. As I recall, you've almost gotten us all killed once already cause you said the wrong things. Thankfully our gracious GM let you fix that blunder before Darga had us all executed. Give everyone else a chance to actually build their characters for once will ya.


I am not the only one responsible for the enjoyment of this group. Nor am I trying to steel the show. In fact, I believe Dorian gave everybody very open ended assignments they characters could work on the first day we got to the palace. Some of them went with it (candor) some didn't (Skad). The majority of events that have occurred were triggered by others or by Walter, not by myself, and I feel a need to remind you it is Walters place to determine if somebody is running away with the game, not yours.

And I have no problem seeing where you get "Dorian-Playing" from. So far, at every instance, Nuu has come to Dorian with either information or asking for direction. Find the security grid in the vent, call a meeting and ask Dorians opinion. Find a droid who has information, go to Dorian to have him decode it or pay for it. Get a slave girl, Dorian what do we do? There are 3 other characters and a GM to talk to, you don't have to run to Dorian just because you know there will be a fight. You could, at any point, involve anybody else at your leisure and do just about anything you want. Wanna shape shift into that Twi'lek and dance topless in the audience chamber, go for it. Want to kick us out of the room and have your way with her, fine. Want to go shock box a wall, knock yourself out. Think it would be best right now to, you know, figure out what the hell just happened and why we were attacked and deal with that, maybe you should get on that. I fail to see how your inability to come up with something to do is my problem. I also don't see why, with all the other crap that just happened and with the above quote, Nuu didn't take point and involve skad or candor or avran but instead went to Dorian and asked him to decode the information then proceeded to talk with Dorian about what to do next. Yeah, I was talking with the slave, Yeah, I let the Wookiee go, guess what, the second you guys started talking I let you! Skad or Candor could have offed the wookiee if they wanted, you could have started on the twi'lek, and the second you decided you wanted to be in charge, Dorian walked out. Not my problem Nuu decided to run out before Dorian when he insulted Nuu. That and did you notice Elanor was still there? I was planning on giving her some face time but I guess that isn't going to happen now.

obikenobi1 wrote:
Not really sure what my character did to warrant all the insults though....... :roll:


Here is the thought process. So far we have been in 3 combats as a group. The one in the warehouse, the one in the arena, and the one just now. The first combat, Nuu ran off apart from the group to chase after somebody Dorian didn't see. The second combat Nuu refused to take part in so he could scout the area, after which time he came back saying "there is a security grid in the vents." That and both Nuu and Avran were critical of the decision to participate in the arena, making Dorian look like an incompetent leader in front of Darga, a bad thing for business relations. Then, in this last ordeal, all Dorian witnessed was Nuu and the Twi'lek rolling on the ground, him trying to pin her, while the rest of the people fought.

Next, Dorian made it as clear as he could that this was a business deal and he had to portray himself as the groups leader in order to avoid suspicion. Most everybody in the group has done a good job of that in his mind (Avran even came up with a good excuse as to why he wasn't participating in the arena, Nuu just hid) However, Nuu has butted heads with Dorian both in private, which is fine, and in public, which is a problem for the character and his perceived roll in the mission. Not only that, recent events (the droid data and now the slave) give Dorian the impression that Nuu sees him as nothing more than a bank account for Nuu's personal use. Not the most friendly of ideas to any person.

Lastly, Nuu has taken what Dorian sees as unnecessary action to save everything they have come across, even things that have repeatedly tried to kill Dorian or the rest of the group. While it is a noble thing, Dorian spent a bit of time with Elanor in the Clone wars, so he is use to doing what needs to be done for the missions sake. When Nuu tries to save things he sees as an enemy, especially when it would cost them the mission should it go wrong, Dorian takes it as Nuu being outright stupid. Hence the recent insults to him about wanting a sex slave. That and now Nuu is going "I'm the leader." Choosing what to do and who to talk to and how to proceed but then telling Dorian to do the work, buy the slave, buy the information, exc. It is in character for Nuu I guess but it still rubs Dorian the wrong way, especially when Dorian calls Nuu out on it and tells him to solve his own problems, then Nuu storms out because he was insulted, leaving the group "leaderless".

So, why would Dorian like Nuu based on the actions so far? Dorian sees Nuu as inept, as he hasn't done anything to advance the mission yet in his eyes. (I know Nuu has tried and the vent thing was awkward and whatnot but it is how the Character sees it.) He sees Nuu as a coward because he hasn't helped fight a single battle. (Again, I know better but Dorian hasn't seen Nuu fight once except for the grapple with the Twi'lek which he is viewing as more Nuu being horny than in combat.) He thinks Nuu is outright stupid and useless based on his attempts to take on the role of the groups leader while also failing to provide the group with any discernible benefit. (though now that Dorian knows Nuu is a shifter, that opinion is slowly changing. Should Nuu actually be of benefit at some point the belief of Nuu's uselessness will change.) And worst of all, he sees Nuu as a liability to the mission because he keeps trying to save enemies and keeps directly arguing with Dorian when they are in a crowd (not playing his role as a paid bodyguard) which not only hurts negotiations with Darga but also could blow the groups cover. That and Nuu being a shifter could just about destroy the mission if he is discovered, a likelihood in Dorian's mind based on his experience with Nuu so far.


So what about everybody else? Since I have to defend my characters opinion of your character, here is how Dorian views everybody else.


Dorian likes Skad. He didn't at first because he thought he would be a risk to the mission based on Skad's outburst on the ship. He treated skad very poorly at the time if you remember. However, aside from a few frustrations (arena battle being the biggest), Skad has been extremely helpful in saving the parties butts each combat and has mostly kept himself out of trouble. Skad's outbursts have died down and he has actually grown as a character, causing events and helping the group gain not only Darga's favor but money as well.

Dorian is indifferent to Candor. Candor is playing his part well but there has been little interaction aside from his assistance in battle. Again, respect is given to him as a blaster for hire because he has at least helped/put forth effort to help the group. Also, his display for Darga was not only on que, it was completed successfully. After that, Candor had done just as Dorian has asked, blend in with the crowd and get any information he can. The indifference is only because he does not know much of the man.

Dorian isn't fond of Avran. They have different opinions on many things. However, Avran has been playing his part effectively thus far and has actually managed to be a pacifist without jeopardizing the mission, so he is tolerated. He also has only "talked back" to Dorian in private and in ways that express his dissatisfaction without saying "I'll beat you up" or some other veiled threat. This has earned Avran some respect, it takes a strong will to argue for what you believe, and intelligence to know when to or more importantly not to argue. Also, Dorian has some respect for Jedi, not that he is going to save every one he sees but he isn't going to sell them out either. So, while he doesn't like Avran's opinion, he can at least respect it because Avran has shown Dorian respect as well. Yes, they will butt heads from time to time but Dorian has no reason to try to ostracize Avran from the group, nor does he believe it would be of benefit.

Elanor is self explanatory. Wifey is as Wifey does. She is important for the mission as his weapons demonstrator, she has helped with every combat, and while she hasn't set up the explosives he has asked her to yet, he understands that her primary role in the group is as a bodyguard and medic (though that role is Avrans as well now in his mind) not as a tech specialist. That and she has proven on past experience she is capable.

Quote:
I'd like to see us complete this mission and actually work as a real team. Jedi_Master however must have different ideas.


I'm playing in character and your character has been causing Dorian a lot of problems with his plans. So Dorian is being a dick to Nuu. Get off the personal stang, its a game and the character is being played as written, just as yours is. Dorian wants the mission to succeed but Nuu and Dorian have vastly different approaches. The two have to figure out how to overcome those differences for the mission to succeed. It is not an "I want the mission to fail" nor is it a "You are stupid, let me do what I want" kind of thing, it is a "Our characters have very different ideas on what is right and wrong. Mine wants to get this done ASAP and accepts collateral damage as part of the mission. He also is not a 'good' character, he has aspirations to become a crime lord and doesn't care a lot about things outside his goals. Your character wants no collateral damage and wants to come out of this as a good person. Your guy wants to avenge his race and therefor has a vested interest in how the rebellion is viewed. So how are they going to work together?"

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Last edited by Jedi_Master on Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Very true. Most of the recent conflict that bugged Nuuhatyc was that Dorian ignored the whole thing about Six-Six's information that we needed to decrypt. I'm in no way criticizing you. Dorian is just playing the way his character is, and now that you explained to me why Dorian treats Nuu the way he does, it makes a whole lot more sense. Nuu see's Dorian as not doing everything to advance the mission that comes up. He thought the data held some important information. That only him and Avran were present when Six-Six came to talk with everyone, lead him to beleive nobody cared about completing the mission except for him and Avran. Dorian see's Nuuhatyc as a potential risk and that he tries to take the role of the leader. It was never my intention to give the impression that Nuu wants to be the leader. I'm trying to emphasize the fact Nuu feels uncomfortable with Dorian always telling people what to do and going off on tangents when there is a mission to complete. Again, as you said, the two characters have different approaches to going about completing the mission. Being a clawdite, Nuuhatyc doesn't want to draw to much attention to himself or be found out he is a shapeshifter, hence not wanting to fight in the gladiator arena where if he was badly injured everyone would know and he'd put the group at risk. Also, with the gladiator arena, Nuu saw it as a waste of time when they could be doing something other than please a hutt that wouldn't care if we died in the arena. I understand what you are trying to do, but Nuuhatyc doesn't. I could go on and list a lot of examples of how Nuuhatyc has seen what Dorian has said/done so far, but I think the point was made in what you wrote. Both are rubbing each other the wrong way. Nuuhatyc brought the information to Dorian because as the skilled person in the group who has experience working with computers (by the warehouse he saw Dorian working with the droid's program). Nuu comes to Dorian when the group needs to make financial decisions because you are wealthy and everyone else is dirt poor. Heck, if Dorian can spend thousands of credits on a bottle of wine, what would he care about paying for a slave that would save her life. Nuu wants to complete the mission quickly, Dorian wants to complete the mission quickly, everyone wants to complete it. The fact remains, no one really talks a lot except for Dorian, Elanor, Avran and Nuuhatyc. Dorian hasn't really told anyone what his whole plan is. Nuuhatyc is uncomfortable not having a plan of action. At least we all discussed what to do about the Imperial person coming to visit. That impressed Nuuhatyc. Honestly, if the mission is a success, Nuu will not feel so bad at having Dorian and everyone else around since he's seen they can work together to acomplish missions. That he hasn't worked with anyone before this, and that he's unsure how everyone else works makes him uneasy, espeically when people make his job as an infiltrator harder. What I'm trying to convey through the character is mistrust and uneasyness. His background story kinda set in motion this since he rarely trust people other than his family and close freinds that he knows can keep secrets. He now has to deal with people he has no idea what to think about, except for Dorian who criticizes him a lot. He basically thinks of Dorian as untrustworthy at this point. That and the species background for Clawdites in the book states that they aren't fond of bullies, kinda makes Dorian not his favorite guy to be around. That he has to work with him causes irritation for him. Nuu doesn't want to make enemies but wants to be friends. But he also doesn't want to be pushed around. Seeing that so far he's failed at that in regards to Dorian, makes Nuu fearful of his life. Hopefully this lengthy explanation clears some things up.

I'm not trying to personally attack anyone. If that's the way my posts come of to you Jedi_Master, I'm sorry. the whole comment about you having other ideas was out of line on my part and I shouldn't have said it. I was just a little ticked off that day in having to explain things to avoid a combat situation between Dorian and Nuuahtyc as Walter mentioned in his post.

Anyways, hopefully this doesn't disrupt the game as this whole situation is awkward and I do feel it is my fault. I get rather involved with my characters interactions with everyone, and when Nuuhatyc tried to talk to Dorian about buying the slave and Dorian refused and instead insulted him, I personally got a little mad since I tried to make it seem like Nuuhatyc was extending an olive branch to Dorian and it was slapped away. I honestly didn't expect the response Dorian gave to Nuu, and I took it as a personal attack on myself since I had been posting Nuuhatycs thoughts about the twilek woman, but had never mentioned in words to anyone what he thought about her or expressed in actions that he was oggling her. To everyone else looking, Nuu was just glancing at her. That you read my posts where I wrote what Nuu was thinking and then in turn posted it as if Dorian knew what Nuu was thinking, made me a little ticked off also. Just to be clear, thoughts are in Italics spoken sentences are in "quotations".

Alright, back to the game, before this all degenerates in a personal battle of the posts.

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Last edited by obikenobi1 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:58 pm 
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I have edited my post in light of Dorians response to Nuu as his response did change how Nuuhatyc originally left the room. I suggest Jedi_Master do the same in light of what my character did also, and call it good. Nuuhatyc is no longer storming off angry, but has calmed down after hearing what Dorian said. Nuuhatyc will wait for a response from others before heading to bed.

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Last edited by obikenobi1 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Jedi_Master wrote:
Dorian wants the mission to succeed but Nuu and Dorian have vastly different approaches. The two have to figure out how to overcome those differences for the mission to succeed. It is not an "I want the mission to fail" nor is it a "You are stupid, let me do what I want" kind of thing, it is a "Our characters have very different ideas on what is right and wrong. Mine wants to get this done ASAP and accepts collateral damage as part of the mission. He also is not a 'good' character, he has aspirations to become a crime lord and doesn't care a lot about things outside his goals. Your character wants no collateral damage and wants to come out of this as a good person. Your guy wants to avenge his race and therefor has a vested interest in how the rebellion is viewed. So how are they going to work together?"


PM sent.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:55 pm 
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obikenobi1 wrote:
I honestly didn't expect the response Dorian gave to Nuu, and I took it as a personal attack on myself since I had been posting Nuuhatycs thoughts about the twilek woman, but had never mentioned in words to anyone what he thought about her or expressed in actions that he was oggling her. To everyone else looking, Nuu was just glancing at her. That you read my posts where I wrote what Nuu was thinking and then in turn posted it as if Dorian knew what Nuu was thinking, made me a little ticked off also. Just to be clear, thoughts are in Italics spoken sentences are in "quotations".


As I mentioned before, Dorian took Nuu's grapple with the Twi'lek as Nuu being horny, it is reinforced by Nuu's sudden desire to help the girl (as Dorian sees no use for the slave other than a tool for getting out of the current situation.) hence the comments about him ogling the girl and the sex slave stuff. :P that and like I mentioned, Dorian is kinda going out of his way to ostracize Nuu at the moment. I can still see reason to tone it down though, so I will.

Quote:
Alright, back to the game, before this all degenerates in a personal battle of the posts.


Haha, you know we both love to argue every last point into oblivion. I can't imagine how many times Taylor face-palmed today :P

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:05 am 
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I have scratched the cornea of my right eye. It is very painful to open ether because of the size of the wound, so i will not be no-line for about a week (according to the O.D.) so that it can heal.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Ouch, hope it heals soon!


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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:59 pm 
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spacemanspiff wrote:
Ouch, hope it heals soon!


+1

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:51 pm 
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All I want is that the group fights as one and does not run off by themselves. I really think we should have the rule of two at all times. Last mission I got shot to pieces when that shouldnt of happened.

We really dont have a true tank that can take a lot of shots which is not needed if we all work as a team. Next time we level Ill be making a few changes so I can go the tank route maybe that will help overall with obi running off. who knows.

Non combat I think we are doing fine for the most part. I dont agree what we are going on this part of the mission but skad is ok with it since he is rolling around on the ground right now and will be till I know what fall damage is. I really wish one of use would of gone straight computers/mech because of the house rules its close to impossible to make a check.


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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:56 pm 
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My character isn't really a group fighter. He can when he needs to, but he prefers doing what infiltrators do best. Sneak attacks against single targets to neutralize them and not cause alarm. He stuns people with his fists, not shooting them with noisy blasters. He has good stealth for sneaking up on people, and can shapeshift when he deals with someone quitely. K'tara Training helps in cause people not to scream out loud the second they are attacked. Silent warfare is the way Nuu prefers to operate. Skad likes to charge into battle screaming, and Elanor likes to unleash payloads of explosives into groups of enemies. Jester's character likes to blast enemies into peices also. Dorian gives fire support with his blaster. All really great options when attacking and killing enemies. Nuu operates differently and that is why he may sneak of and try something different. This is kinda why I made his character this way as it brings a new experience to RPG that I've never tried before and makes me be creative. I would like to have someone else assist me in infiltration efforts, but seeing as no one else is that great at stealth kinda makes me a one man show. So its not like I don't want to help the group in combat, its just my combat style is vastly different to everyone else that it seems awkward that I'm stunning people while everyone else makes carnage everywhere. I suppose its helpful for taking captives, but that's about it. Nuu would rather help out behind the scenes to make victory easier rather than on the scene.

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To learn Mandalorian, go to http://www.karentraviss.com/html/mando.htm.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:52 pm 
Warmaster
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I am doing better and can, more or less, see again. I have another eye doctors appointment on Saturday and will not be posting till after that (looking a the screen still hearts my eyes).

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:31 pm 
Warmaster
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Obi, another thing to consider about Dorian seaming a leader is that Jedi_Master has the highest post count in this game (and Dorian has the highest XP because of that).

OK my head hurts again. I will catch up the IC thread tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:35 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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How long before I can roll again for a computer check to decrypt the information Six-Six gave us? I doubt I got anything with my roll.

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 Post subject: Re: Dawn of Defiance PBP/Vassel Game (No Openings)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:30 am 
Warmaster
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Hopefully it is good news Walter!!! Well, as good as it can be when you scratch your eye...

Obi, I believe we had 10 minutes to decrypt the info, so I do not think you have the time according to the rules in the situation given. It'll be a pain but six is gonna need some dough. Or you can let/throw Dorian at the droid and let him come up with some string of bull :P or have candor just shoot it and blame the carnage on the firefight in the halls. After all, it is just a droid, that would be cheaper to buy than the info I would guess.

I'll post again when my stuff is replied to. Right now the XP cancels out I am assuming :P

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