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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:

There's absolutely nothing lost by keeping it on the schedule. If one of the events had 3 players, that's about $40 made before GenCon takes its cut that might not have been scored otherwise.



I understand Dennis, but it was my understanding that people complained last year because we had too many events going on and that was the reason given by some that the events didn't have the turnouts expected.

If that is the case, then it is entirely possible that some events may be cut. For example it is my understanding that we are going from a whole bunch of sealed events down to 1 for this exact reason.

Now I do know there will be some Mass Battles at Gencon (Eric and I will be running our Death Star Trench Run mass battle and I believe that Les was asked to run a geonosis battle and I volunteered to run a Hoth battle if needed since many people were disappointed that there wasn't one last year)

As far as the rest of it, I know Ray has it under control and is working to make sure that there will be plenty to do if you want to play star wars.

Unfortunately, there are really only 7-8 slots available to run events if we don't want to end up running things at the same time as something else. 3 slots for JC, 3 slots for Sith Trials, maybe a slot after Champs and whatever time slots on Sunday. This doesn't leave a whole lot of room for stuff. With Mystery Map, Sealed, Royal Rumble, Epic 500, Epic Duos (assuming twice like last year), Tile Wars, DD, Team event, that is already more than 8 things without any of the normal Jedi Challenge events.

I believe that we should let Ray figure out what he thinks is the best way to organize this will be (since no one else has volunteered to step up and do it) and know that he will do the best he can to get as many options available as are possible. Too many cooks in the kitchen just end up making a mess.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:32 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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urbanjedi wrote:
I believe that we should let Ray figure out what he thinks is the best way to organize this will be (since no one else has volunteered to step up and do it) and know that he will do the best he can to get as many options available as are possible. Too many cooks in the kitchen just end up making a mess.



Well, last year, I was on several calls with Bill, Ray and usually one or two others. I just assumed that would be my expected contribution this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:33 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
urbanjedi wrote:
Regarding Epic 500, we ran 90 minute rounds at Coolecticon a couple of months ago and we didn't have a problem. I could see pushing the event to 2 hours per round with 3 rounds. But you have to require all the restrictions (3 commanders, 16 characters, etc.) to make it work. It may not ever be a viable format for something GenCon, to be completely honest (because I was only being 40% honest before :P ).

At the recent PA event, I finished all of my matches before time (75 minute rounds). But there were other people who had a hard time getting past 3 or 4 rounds. I wouldn't say that those players were necessarily "slow players" (maybe they were, but I can't say for sure since I hadn't met them before)...but maybe it was more the result of the format being new and in some ways a higher-stakes format. Uncertainty breeds slowness. I remember walking around after my games to look at the other games still running, and I was surprised to see so many pieces on the board after 60-70 minutes...a number of those people would've needed 120 minutes to finish their games!

If the Epic 500 tourney had 90 minute rounds, I think you'd have about half of the players standing around at the end of every round, while most of the slower players still would not finish.

2 factors that can really help to speed up the game at 500pts:
-Gambit is 25 pts (requiring a piece costing 25+ to score gambit) rather than 5
-3-2-1 scoring system. It works well in 500pts, IMHO. The losing player scores 1 pt for killing 250pts of his opponent's pieces. This really rewards aggressive play, even for the person who ends up losing the match.

And while we're at it:
-Limiting the max # of CEs can make a big difference, since it hinders the use of Dodonna/San/Ozzel, who can slow down the game (since the non-tempo control player has to work harder to prevent a devastating end-of-round strike and thus ends up taking longer to make his moves).


I'm not attending Gencon this year, but I figured I'd chime in anyway, since Epic 500 is far and away my favorite format and I want to see it thrive. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:54 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
urbanjedi wrote:
I believe that we should let Ray figure out what he thinks is the best way to organize this will be (since no one else has volunteered to step up and do it) and know that he will do the best he can to get as many options available as are possible. Too many cooks in the kitchen just end up making a mess.



Well, last year, I was on several calls with Bill, Ray and usually one or two others. I just assumed that would be my expected contribution this year.


Well, I meant Ray and whoever, not necessarily just Ray by himself.

I was just pointing out that we can't have 20 people standing around arguing about what or when to run an event and miss getting the events submitted. If Dean is correct and getting things submitted sooner rather than later during the submission window is important, than I for one vote that Ray get things submitted ASAP even if it means that some event are different than desired or don't have a representation this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:09 pm 
Warmaster
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
I figure pairing Epic up with DD is the only way to run it smoothly. Less than 4 + more than 4 equals about 8 for two events.


actually if you add in tile wars it will fit better anyway. Tile wars has a strict time limit of 45 minute rounds

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:10 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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DarthJawa wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
I figure pairing Epic up with DD is the only way to run it smoothly. Less than 4 + more than 4 equals about 8 for two events.


actually if you add in tile wars it will fit better anyway. Tile wars has a strict time limit of 45 minute rounds



DD is 30. 30<45

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:33 pm 
Warmaster
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here is my take though:


thursday :
Jedi challenge
100
150
200
Sealed Events(if any are planned)

Friday:
Sith Trials
Tile wars
Dynamic Duo
Epic Skirmishes

Saturday:
Championship
sealed events (if any are planned) during champs
Mass battles during champs
Epic Duos after champs ( To wind down)

Sunday:
championship (Top 8)
Epic Duos
Mass battles



obviously there may be more events planned or beter ideas as to when everything shuld be planned. But that is my take. Take it or leave it.

also for my input with the sith trials, i would say that if you have dynamic duo, tile wars and Epic Skirmishes everything should level out for the timing issue. Tile wars and dynamic duo are both 45 minute rounds, so if you make epic skirmishes a 75-90 minute rounds you will get done within 12 - 13 hours depends on breaks and lunch. plus if you start at 8:00 am then you can be done by 10:00 with breaks.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:37 pm 
Warmaster
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ok ture i forgot dd was 30 minutre rounds, but that still enforces the allowance for Epic Skirmishes.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:09 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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Again guys I would suggest that everyday that passes by you are risking spilting your events to different places in the Convention Center.

You should be only talking about maybe 4 events that you are unsure about. The rest should be easy. I mean your Saturday should be booked easy enough. Sunday too.

So you are talking about just Thursday and Fridays schedule.

Also I noticed that maybe you are not planning on running different events at the same time. i would say that is a bad move. You need too because again you need to keep as many people playing as possible. So what if only 3 or 4 people play in an event. That is 3 or 4 more than would be playing if there is no event there.

I will say this again and I dont mean it as a criticism but just something that should be a goal. You cannot game design and event plan around only what is happening at the competitive level. I mean really the only real competitive event at Gencon has always been the Championship otherwise people would include the other big tourneys as important as to who won.

Anyways everyday that they are not submitted is a chance that they will spilt you up. Both last year (yes I was the person who did the event submission) and the year before I had the events ready to go by December 1. That includes the write up descirbing them and everything. If you remember two years ago they put one of our tourneys off in no mans land. That was with submission on day 1 hour 1 of the submission window.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:15 pm 
Ugnaught Master!
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Well I didn't realized I missed so much by not getting on Gamers this weekend at all!

Working on it all right now. Trying to iron out everything. Events will be submitted this week.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:22 am 
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urbanjedi wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:

There's absolutely nothing lost by keeping it on the schedule. If one of the events had 3 players, that's about $40 made before GenCon takes its cut that might not have been scored otherwise.



I understand Dennis, but it was my understanding that people complained last year because we had too many events going on and that was the reason given by some that the events didn't have the turnouts expected.


And if I need house work done and call 15 contractors I will get 15 different suggestions on what is needed to fix it. Point is, I don't know who "some" is, nor does it matter. It was probably educated guessing at best and random speculation at worst. The company making the game was six months gone and the reason for low turnout was too many events? Really?? In case you forgot, turnout was down across the board, and I don't think it's accurate to blame that on too many events on the schedule. Having less events won't increase turnout. In fact, it's likely turnout will be even lower this year than last year, regardless of the number of events. I'm not against cutting events but as you say that is completely Ray's call as he is the one taking this on. I am against cutting the "fun" events just because they were the ones with very low turnout. I'd say move them to a different time, or cut something else that is more interfering but overall less popular (like back-to-back sealed events with something wedged in between) and then see what happens this year.

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I believe that we should let Ray figure out what he thinks is the best way to organize this will be (since no one else has volunteered to step up and do it) and know that he will do the best he can to get as many options available as are possible. Too many cooks in the kitchen just end up making a mess.


I agree with this wholeheartedly.

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