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 Post subject: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:12 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Well the planning for Gencon has begun.

If you have suggestions on how to improve the Star Wars Minis experience at Gencon please let us know.

A great example is what I heard at the 12 hours of Star Wars Minis in Kokomo. "It would be good if the team tournament didn't start so late because it takes so long and then the main tournament starts the next morning."

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:34 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I'd also suggest that any game play changes be made at least 2 months in advance. I know there was talk of changing the Team events last year but everyone felt it was changed too close to GenCon and did away with all the practice everyone else had.

Also, I suggest we get tasers or cattle prods for those non SWM players who camp at our seats ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:09 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:11 am 
Master of the Order
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Royal Rumble.

We can do a 2 round tournament. Any number of players - divide into groups of 3 and 4. Everyone plays one round (cutoff at 2 hours max). Top 4 scores go to the final table.

Play for champion.

It makes a fun 4 hour (max) tournament, and Jake K and/or I will be willing to run it.






Oh - and of course TILE WARS again. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:03 am 
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I've never gotten to see period based play anywhere. It would be cool to have an event where OR only plays Sith and Mando for the first three rounds. Then do a top 8 cut where it would be more of a normal event.

The squad construction would be your faction and any non-unique fringe. This would keep some silly things like Cade Skywalker out of the Sith.. I would also suggest keeping it at 100 points so you don't have a lot of out of period stuff mixing since you cant fit both maul and Bane in a squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:01 am 
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I can't believe i wasn't the first to see this thread. I have been working hard to see a royal rumble tournament at gen con. I will run/judge it. People will like this format as it is the by far the best multiplayer format I have ever seen played. I'm sure the Kokomo crew would like to see a royal rumble tourny as well. I'd like to thank them for they have helped to expand the format with their loyal players who have really taken to this format of play.

Royal Rumble for gen con.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:30 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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hmmm shouldnt a list be close to be finished? The first deadline is coming up soon isnt it.
I know dean has had the list done before the new year in the past. Just wanted to make sure someone is on this.

Event Timeline

January 13 Event Submission Begins

January 13 - February 6 early event submission

February 7 - March 19 event submission

March 19 Event Submission Deadline

March 19 Program Book Event Highlights due

June 1 Layout Change Requests due

June 1 GM Hotel Requests due

June 1 GM Badge Requests due

September 3 Final Deadline for:

Badge reimbursement requests

Hotel reimbursement requests

I think we need to get all of this no later than the 20th if you guys want hotels and so on. Kind of wish we would of sent them in two days ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:03 am 
Jedi Battlemaster
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This was last year's schedule:

Spoiler: show
Thursday

9 am Jedi Challenge 200 **** NMN1117968
10 am 125 R&R Sealed **** NMN1118018
3 pm JC 100 **** NMN1117969
3 pm Clone Wars Mass Battle **** NMN1118012
7 pm JC 150 **** NMN1117972
7 pm 125 R&R Sealed **** NMN1118019
8 pm Customizing Workshop **** TBA

Friday
8 125 R&R Sealed **** NMN1118140
8 am Mystery Map **** NMN1118554
10 am Old Republic/Sith/Mando Mass Battle **** NMN1118138
2 pm Starship Champs **** NMN1118552
2 pm Tile Wars **** NMN1118539
3 pm Old Republic/Sith/Mando Mass Battle **** NMN1118139
5 pm Epic Duos **** NMN1118631
6 pm 125 R&R Sealed **** NMN1118141
8 pm Team Tourney **** NMN1118563

Saturday
9 am 2011 SWM World Championships! **** NMN1118012
10 am Original Trilogy Mass Battle **** NMN1118142
1 pm 125 R&R Sealed **** NMN1118143
3 pm Dynamic Duo **** NMN1118541
6 pm 125 R&R Sealed **** NMN1118144

Sunday
9 am Final 8 Playoffs **** N/A
10 am Dynamic Duo **** NMN1118543
11 am 125 R&R Sealed **** NMN1118145
12 pm Epic Duos **** NMN1118632


There were a lot of great events, and many people had a good time. However, some events were not as appreciated. In particular:
-75% of the sealed events had 4 or less players
-Dynamic Duo was not very popular this year
-One of the Mass Battles did not have enough players.

I would propose the following:
for 2012 suggest:
JC 100
JC 150
JC 200
Tile Wars
Mystery Map
Championship
Team Tournament
Sealed Events, no more than 1 per day, maybe as few as 3 (Thurs/Fri/Sat)
2-3 Mass Battles
Customizing Event
Epic DD (twice worked well)
{new event - like royal rumble or Utinni}
maybe SSB

That would be about 20 events, making only 4/5 a day, giving a bit for free time for SWM buffs and the volunteers that run it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:52 am 
Big Bad Brad
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I'm still proposing Sith Trials. I wanted it to be more distinct this year. Seems like that would be a lot to squeeze in. I'll still work on something and along with it will have the proposed events if we choose not to make them distinct.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:20 am 
Black Sun Thug
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Regarding the sealed events:

I'm on the outskirts of the planning, but I believe the thinking at this time is to have only one sealed event. As I understand it, the sealed events were unpopular for basically two reasons: 1, there was no incentive to participate, in that everyone who wanted a copy of V-set 2 had already ordered one, and there was no real benefit to getting an extra set early; and 2, people who participated had to bring a wide assortment of their own minis to proxy for whatever they happened to draw from the set. However, we are hoping to overcome one of these obstacles by providing custom "boosters" for each player, so that they won't have to bring pieces to use to proxy. I know that players really enjoyed all the customs we had for prizes last year, and I think people would be much more excited to play in a sealed event if they knew they were at least going to get 14 custom figures out of it.

I hope I'm not stepping on anybody's toes putting this information out there (if I am, feel free to delete), but I wanted to allay any concerns about continuing to put on sealed events at GenCon.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:01 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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jonnyb815 wrote:
hmmm shouldnt a list be close to be finished? The first deadline is coming up soon isnt it.
I know dean has had the list done before the new year in the past. Just wanted to make sure someone is on this.


It is being taken care of. It is still good to hear people's suggestions. Should it have been done sooner. Well, probably.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:46 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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Guys I hope you get on this.

Every moment you wait to submit events is space not being availible to you.

I have done this for last two years and timing is very important. Gaming companies are generally lined up for space needs first then it becomes first come first serve. By getting your events in early you guarantee the ability to keep things in one area. If it takes too long to submit they will break you up an stick events in all different areas.

A couple of things that need to be considered when doing this.

1. There will be no perfect schedule. Whatever you plan for Friday nite will get the statement "that was great but I wish it wasnt the nite before the Champs." Well something has to go in that time slot so really you just cant help it. The team tourney was placed there by me for two previous years because it started as something that was considered more fun than competitive.

2. No matter how well you think your event submission went they will kick back stuff at you for little petty things that Gencon thinks is important and you dont think is important.

I am a little shocked that Ray would not have had this done by the 13th. No offense to anyone but I heard that Ray throws the best Gencon ever last year. I found that just a slight slap in the face to Jim Fraser but ok everyone was circling wagons and well I can understand. But the event submission honestly is way more important than running the events. The latter cannot happen without the submission. Space is very important (whether or not construction is happening or finished). They may have the space to fit you in.... but that doesnt mean it will be in one area. That part you have to fight for. Your best weapon in that fight would have been submission on the 13th.

So please try to be quick on getting it submitted.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:04 pm 
Master of the Order
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I want to see Dynamic Duo remain on the schedule, and not just for obvious reasons. Just because it was less popular (which I'm not sure how that was determined) doesn't mean it was unpopular. Maybe cutting it back to one event slot instead of 2 is in order.

Also, I think it is safe to say the age of mass battles with this game is over. The only real advantage they ever had was that it gave new players a safe environment to learn the core game rules and see if they wanted to go after the skirmish stuff. It's unlikely we will pick up very many new players at this point. Once FF launches its ground-based game rumored to be unveiled this summer, its going to be that much harder.

Aside from that, I have nothing to really add right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:18 pm 
Major Tierce
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Dennis, I know that one of the DD events last year had only 3 players in it. I am not sure how many the other had. That does not seem like enough interest to keep it on the schedule when Epic Duos generated so much more interest (more players between the two events than played in the Champs).

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:25 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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urbanjedi wrote:
Dennis, I know that one of the DD events last year had only 3 players in it. I am not sure how many the other had. That does not seem like enough interest to keep it on the schedule when Epic Duos generated so much more interest (more players between the two events than played in the Champs).



Fine, then I'll make regular DD part of the Sith Trials :D. I don't want to see it go either, and I agree with his assessment of Mass battles, plus I just want to emphatically agree with Dennis for a Change.

Sith Trial 1 "Rule of Two"
Dynamic Duo

Sith Trial 2 "Through passion, I gain strength"
150 point Faction pure

Sith Trial 3 "Thru strength, I gain power"
500 point Epic

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:59 pm 
Master of the Order
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
urbanjedi wrote:
Dennis, I know that one of the DD events last year had only 3 players in it. I am not sure how many the other had. That does not seem like enough interest to keep it on the schedule when Epic Duos generated so much more interest (more players between the two events than played in the Champs).



Fine, then I'll make regular DD part of the Sith Trials :D. I don't want to see it go either, and I agree with his assessment of Mass battles, plus I just want to emphatically agree with Dennis for a Change.

Sith Trial 1 "Rule of Two"
Dynamic Duo

Sith Trial 2 "Through passion, I gain strength"
150 point Faction pure

Sith Trial 3 "Thru strength, I gain power"
500 point Epic


I would love TILE WARS to stay a part of the Sith Trials. I would suggest subbing TILE WARS back in instead of faction pure 150.

That way we have 3 very distinct events, nothing like normal skirmishes. 150 pt faction pure is mildly interesting - but it is basically a normal skirmish with a minor twist.

I'm not saying not to have it, but just have it as a stand alone event.

I like having DD as part of the Sith trials. I think having it part of the sith trials will get it more attendance, while Epic Duos can stand on it's own. I think the numbers for Epic Duos were inflated last year because it was the exciting new thing, and it was part of the sith trials. It probably did take some from regular DD last year.


The other issue comes from Epic 500. I really like having the format, but finishing in an hour is just unrealistic. Is it going to be less than 4 rounds, or more than 4 hours, or unsatisfyingly un-finishable? Don't know if you can have all 3. Even giving 3 pt wins for 350 or more scored (or whatever point level you choose) is not ideal. Maybe making override illegal will help, and 50 pts for gambit. (You score the cost of your figure(s) you put in gambit, minimum 5 max 50 - reinforcements don't count) That would really reward aggression. Perhaps even a point bonus for first kill? Just brainstorming here.

The other good thing about TILE WARS and DD in the Sith Trials, is that they are inherently shorter formats. So that way if Epic 500 is longer - it's still less of a commitment for the whole day.

While we're at it, maybe we should make DD have a shorter time limit. Does it already? I wasn't sure it that was official. But something like TILE WARS has I think would be good for DD. 30 min or less = 3 pt win, 45 min or less = 2 pt win, over 45 min = double loss. No reason DD should take an hour.

Then it would be 3 hrs for DD, 3 hours for Tile Wars, and you could make 1.5 hr rounds for Epic (6 hrs total) to make it the same 12 hr commitment


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:13 pm 
Major Tierce
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The main problem is that we have more formats than we have time slots available.

Just looking at last year's schedule and seeing how people complained that that was over-busy and looking at adding 2 new events (royal rumble and Epic 500 or whatever we call it) will make it very difficult to keep all the "old" formats involved as well.

I know that there will be a mystery map tourney again, and I know that there will be a more focused "sealed" event this year with actual custom minis for all players. If you figure that there will be a Jedi Challenge it thus becomes difficult to find times and/or places for all the other events assuming the championship will again take up a full day.

I know Ray already has this mostly completed and will be submitting to Gencon very soon and I am sure that as soon as he has everything back from Gencon that we are good to g, he will let us all know and we can start our planning .

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:19 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Also, I think it is safe to say the age of mass battles with this game is over. The only real advantage they ever had was that it gave new players a safe environment to learn the core game rules and see if they wanted to go after the skirmish stuff. It's unlikely we will pick up very many new players at this point. Once FF launches its ground-based game rumored to be unveiled this summer, its going to be that much harder.

Aside from that, I have nothing to really add right now.


Because of pressing urgency I feel I need to speak up. I would disagree with you here Dennis. Armoredgear7's mass clone wars battle he ran last year (that he created and printed a massive vinyl map for btw) and from what he told me it was a success. The funny thing about it was almost all the players were non-SWM regulars, just Star Wars fans who possibly didn't have any prior experience with the game. I think Mass Battles are important especially at a big event like Gencon because the grand spectacle of them gets the game attention. And attention from outsiders to the game can only be good for the game as a whole. I would suggest at least one or two Mass battle events be put on the schedule, details to be sorted out later, but get it on the schedule. To completely drop the mass battle aspect of the game at this point would be a disservice to the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:41 pm 
Master of the Order
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urbanjedi wrote:
Dennis, I know that one of the DD events last year had only 3 players in it. I am not sure how many the other had. That does not seem like enough interest to keep it on the schedule when Epic Duos generated so much more interest (more players between the two events than played in the Champs).


Look at the schedule, though. One DD was nestled between 2 sealed events on the day of the Championship. The other was on Sunday, 2 hours before Epic Duos. We had no idea last year how big Epic Duos would be, and I agree with the assessment that ED probably took players away from the regular DD.

There's absolutely nothing lost by keeping it on the schedule. If one of the events had 3 players, that's about $40 made before GenCon takes its cut that might not have been scored otherwise.

Thanks Brad for adding DD to the Sith Trials. :D

Regarding Epic 500, we ran 90 minute rounds at Coolecticon a couple of months ago and we didn't have a problem. I could see pushing the event to 2 hours per round with 3 rounds. But you have to require all the restrictions (3 commanders, 16 characters, etc.) to make it work. It may not ever be a viable format for something GenCon, to be completely honest (because I was only being 40% honest before :P ).

@Don: Mass battle is my first love with this game, as I'm sure almost everyone knows. I'm glad there are still casual fans out there who want to play that way and I wish I could, too. I'm sure if there's room for it Ray will put it on there.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon Suggestions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:15 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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I figure pairing Epic up with DD is the only way to run it smoothly. Less than 4 + more than 4 equals about 8 for two events.

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