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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:06 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Darth_Jim wrote:
elivys wrote:
your gencon tournament was with the Vset I guess so I don't see the point ...

I am not here to say that the list of banned figures is the best idea, or is perfect (it is not my idea anyway :p) , I am just here to say that this will change the metagame and force people to think of new ideas ... that's it :)


Well, using the Vsets is the point. The careful design, playtesting and production of them has yielded immediate results of an expanding meta. It has encouraged not only the use of the new Vset figures, but dusty old WoTc figures as well. (Jabba the Hutt reportedly saw action at GenCon, among others.) Personally, if I am going to continue to play this game, I want more figures to choose from, not less.

I guess what I am not understanding is why you all would rather play with fewer figures than use Vsets, either the ones done here or a creation of your own.



exactly but using or not the Vset is another debat than the debate about banned figures :)


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:12 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Darth_Jim wrote:
elivys wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
The skill level over there must not be as high as here. A wholesale subjective banning of that many figures suggests that rather than letting the meta be shaped by the skill and creativity of the participants, they'd rather shape it themselves. I wonder if it was just a way to keep the Germans from winning their championship again.


again?
Xavier Prein is French :)


A German didn't win the championship? Ever? I thought the '09 champion was German, and he played against a German in the finals.


yes but not the last championship .. just saying that we don't these special rules to keep the germans from winning our championship (not saying they will not win it again :p) and we adapt pretty well to their championship too :)


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:21 am 
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elivys wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
elivys wrote:
your gencon tournament was with the Vset I guess so I don't see the point ...

I am not here to say that the list of banned figures is the best idea, or is perfect (it is not my idea anyway :p) , I am just here to say that this will change the metagame and force people to think of new ideas ... that's it :)


Well, using the Vsets is the point. The careful design, playtesting and production of them has yielded immediate results of an expanding meta. It has encouraged not only the use of the new Vset figures, but dusty old WoTc figures as well. (Jabba the Hutt reportedly saw action at GenCon, among others.) Personally, if I am going to continue to play this game, I want more figures to choose from, not less.

I guess what I am not understanding is why you all would rather play with fewer figures than use Vsets, either the ones done here or a creation of your own.



exactly but using or not the Vset is another debat than the debate about banned figures :)


The Vsets are banned figures on that list we are debating and provide reasons not to ban the others, so I think they are entirely relevant to the discussion.

Banning figures will change the meta but it will force people to think of old ideas, not new ones. Are there players over there advocating creating their own vsets?

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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:22 am 
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elivys wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
elivys wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
The skill level over there must not be as high as here. A wholesale subjective banning of that many figures suggests that rather than letting the meta be shaped by the skill and creativity of the participants, they'd rather shape it themselves. I wonder if it was just a way to keep the Germans from winning their championship again.


again?
Xavier Prein is French :)


A German didn't win the championship? Ever? I thought the '09 champion was German, and he played against a German in the finals.


yes but not the last championship .. just saying that we don't these special rules to keep the germans from winning our championship (not saying they will not win it again :p) and we adapt pretty well to their championship too :)


Point. And congratulations to taking back your national championship.

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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:01 am 
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The French did beat the Germans twice in the last 100 years. It did take several years for the French to "adapt", but with help... :maul:


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:56 am 
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I don't really understand why you would choose not to use the virtual sets at the championship. You're really missing out on a lot of fun. I can see the reasoning behind the decision of banning certain characters. When you don't get any new characters, you have to shake up the metagame some other way. But i can't say i think it's the right choice. I would rather use the Gamers v-sets or even start working on virtual sets of my own i think.
Even if i were able to attend the championship tournament, i don't think i would play. Because all the stuff we normally play with wouldn't be allowed, and you'd have to adapt to a totally different level of play. I rarely create a squad without at least one v-set character now, so it would be awkward limiting my options for a tournament.
I wish you all the luck with the tournament though. I think it's a great way of keeping the game alive here in Europe, and for uniting the community.

Fortunately the v-sets have been very well accepted by my playgroup here in Denmark, and i'm really happy about that. Without new characters we would see the same squads dominate all the time, and the game would probably wither away and die. Now we get new fantastic options with every new set, and everyone looks forward to it.

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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:48 pm 
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your just going to see a lot of speeders cad bane NR maybe some seps. So your playing with some new figures just the 08 meta for the most part. I am just guessing the mtb with NR will be pretty strong. It really doesn't change the meta at all it just makes it smaller.
Odds are I would bring back my Rex,R2,wookiee squad since yodabuck and lancer cant kill it.


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:36 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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biggsy wrote:
I don't really understand why you would choose not to use the virtual sets at the championship. You're really missing out on a lot of fun. I can see the reasoning behind the decision of banning certain characters. When you don't get any new characters, you have to shake up the metagame some other way. But i can't say i think it's the right choice. I would rather use the Gamers v-sets or even start working on virtual sets of my own i think.
Even if i were able to attend the championship tournament, i don't think i would play. Because all the stuff we normally play with wouldn't be allowed, and you'd have to adapt to a totally different level of play. I rarely create a squad without at least one v-set character now, so it would be awkward limiting my options for a tournament.
I wish you all the luck with the tournament though. I think it's a great way of keeping the game alive here in Europe, and for uniting the community.
.


"You're really missing out on a lot of fun" by not coming if you "were able to attend the championship tournament" :)

Some of us use the vset in local tournaments but our "low" skill still allow us to compose with a format different than the one we usually use ^^ The aim of the tournament is to allow a maximum of people to come and it generally has a great success!

More seriously I will not debate about our "skill level which must not be as high as yours", hope we will find a way to confront at Celebration VI next year :)


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:48 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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elivys wrote:
biggsy wrote:
I don't really understand why you would choose not to use the virtual sets at the championship. You're really missing out on a lot of fun. I can see the reasoning behind the decision of banning certain characters. When you don't get any new characters, you have to shake up the metagame some other way. But i can't say i think it's the right choice. I would rather use the Gamers v-sets or even start working on virtual sets of my own i think.
Even if i were able to attend the championship tournament, i don't think i would play. Because all the stuff we normally play with wouldn't be allowed, and you'd have to adapt to a totally different level of play. I rarely create a squad without at least one v-set character now, so it would be awkward limiting my options for a tournament.
I wish you all the luck with the tournament though. I think it's a great way of keeping the game alive here in Europe, and for uniting the community.
.


"You're really missing out on a lot of fun" by not coming if you "were able to attend the championship tournament" :)

Some of us use the vset in local tournaments but our "low" skill still allow us to compose with a format different than the one we usually use ^^ The aim of the tournament is to allow a maximum of people to come and it generally has a great success!

More seriously I will not debate about our "skill level which must not be as high as yours", hope we will find a way to confront at Celebration VI next year :)

I dont see how that can be your goal when there are 25+ good squads right now and you guys limit it to around 5-10+ top squads thats really maximum the people your going to get. You take the OR,Sith,Mandos,Seps(other than 86 droids),vong,republic jedi since you have to have mouse droids around it can still be done but its not a top squad anymore.

So the meta is Rebel,NR,Sep 86 droids,Imp(arica cad bane maybe a vader) I guess there are a few republic squads that could do ok
But really its a three headed monster with the seps and republic on the outside. Thats sounds like a lot of fun NOT.


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:55 am 
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question of point of view as would have said obi wan :p


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:29 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Why is this thread turning into an argument about skill? Since when does the desire to ban pieces or limit squad design have anything to do with skill? I've made the Championship Top 8 at Gencon for 3 out of 4 years, and this year I was in the top running for both the Jedi Challenge and the Sith Trials (not to mention other years), and so by now I've kinda established that I at least know how to play the game...and I've been wanting to see all tempo control pieces banned for more than a year. [Engages in a strong battle with the dark side, wanting to unleash anger in a rant about how tempo control is bad for the game...rolled a crit! Whew! Dark side resisted for now.]

Thanks to Vassal I've played against a few of the German and French players before, and I can attest that they have some excellent players. So let's not turn this into a skill-comparison competition, because we might not win. :)

Personally, I don't understand why some of the pieces were removed, other than just to force a different meta. MotF has been out for more than a year now, and if they aren't using the V-Sets, then that would make for a boring and stale meta; I'd want to shake it up for something different too. And it is true that tempo control and mass-kill potential were the primary meta-shapers before DotF and R&R, so I think most of the bans make sense from that perspective.

So if this is the format, then I'm predicting some variant of Thrawn/Arica/Cad Bane as the winner, because Arica is the only mass-kill piece left in the meta (and therefore she'll be valuable), and also because Cad's biggest danger (deep strikes and long-range melee) is out of the picture...and Thrawn...yeah, he rocks. The other squad option think will do well is NR with Solo Charge (Han beats Thrawn, and Mara can put severe pressure on Cad).

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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:27 pm 
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elivys wrote:
"You're really missing out on a lot of fun" by not coming if you "were able to attend the championship tournament" :)

Some of us use the vset in local tournaments but our "low" skill still allow us to compose with a format different than the one we usually use ^^ The aim of the tournament is to allow a maximum of people to come and it generally has a great success!

More seriously I will not debate about our "skill level which must not be as high as yours", hope we will find a way to confront at Celebration VI next year :)


I wasn't questioning your skill level at all, just pointing out that i would have a hard time going back to using only the WotC characters. The v-sets have brought so much useful and fun stuff, that i wouldn't want to play without them in a tournament. Besides, i'm sure your skill level is a bit above mine, as i've only played the local players from my group. I'm no mastermind at this game, i just enjoy playing it.

And yeah, i know i'm missing out on a lot of fun at the championship. Last year i discussed with some friends if we should maybe attend, but it was a long and expensive trip, so we ended up not going. This year is a no go as well for me, as my budget is pretty tight at the moment. I would really love to be able to come sometime to meet all the other european players.

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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:17 am 
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thereisnotry wrote:
So if this is the format, then I'm predicting some variant of Thrawn/Arica/Cad Bane as the winner, because Arica is the only mass-kill piece left in the meta (and therefore she'll be valuable), and also because Cad's biggest danger (deep strikes and long-range melee) is out of the picture...and Thrawn...yeah, he rocks.


This squad you speak of . . . it sounds familiar


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:46 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
So if this is the format, then I'm predicting some variant of Thrawn/Arica/Cad Bane as the winner, because Arica is the only mass-kill piece left in the meta (and therefore she'll be valuable), and also because Cad's biggest danger (deep strikes and long-range melee) is out of the picture...and Thrawn...yeah, he rocks.


This squad you speak of . . . it sounds familiar

Yes, yes it does. :) It was a Tier 1 squad and only had to step back because of the ubiquitous threat of Yobuck and the Lancer. Now that its biggest counters are gone, I personally think it will rule the meta.

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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:40 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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not sure at all it can win agains a good new rep squad ...


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:15 pm 
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elivys wrote:
not sure at all it can win agains a good new rep squad ...

Yep, and NR was the other squad option I mentioned too. They weren't nerfed at all, other than with the loss of Dodonna.

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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:37 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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thereisnotry wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Yes, yes it does. :) It was a Tier 1 squad and only had to step back because of the ubiquitous threat of Yobuck and the Lancer.


Last year, all confrontations during the french championship between Cade bane/Arica vs Yodabuck or Lancer (not double) always finish with the win of the Empire ! :)


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:41 am 
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elivys wrote:
not sure at all it can win agains a good new rep squad ...

I agree with you Elivys, a good new rep squad (even without Wegde)...
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:04 am 
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I hate this squad :p but I hate cadbane even more! :x


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 Post subject: Re: SWM French Championship 2011 - Annoucement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:46 am 
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The reason they aren't using V-Sets over there, is because the amount of people who know about them is much smaller than the minority who follow the progression of the game post WotC on the English forums.

I followed the discussion for the German championship, andi t was decided that they wanted to make it easier for kids and people who aren't involved in the online SWM community to come along and not be thrown off seeing Yammosks and being like WTF?!

They were planning to use it as a chance to introduce people to the V-Sets. Whether this was successful or not, I don't know. I'm not involved over there anymore. But it was quite a heated debate. On reflection, it was probably a very sensible idea, but that the sets are still not being used sort of baffles me. And the banning of figures is something I also find silly. It does limit creativity.


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