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 Post subject: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:20 pm 
Master of the Order
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So, if you have a Yammosk in a vong squad, won't they always not have slave? Since it is a special ability for vong that has a range six, it seems like it will apply.

But then if that is the case, it seems like a silly ability. All Vong squads have the Yammosk now.

Chazrach's are really, really good for 10 pts, so the slave ability tempers that a little. If it's always turned off due to a Yammosk, it's practically pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Yammosk can't extend it.

The Slave itself has to be within 6 of a character, not some other character within 6 of it getting a bonus.

Not sure I worded that very well, but if you think of it like Gowk's CE it makes more sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:27 am 
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I understand that that is the intent, I'm glad it doesn't work (otherwise it would be silly and pointless, as I already pointed out).

But - that being said - it is confusing. I am trying to figure out exactly why it doesn't work.


Slave (This character has Savage and -2 Defense unless an allied commander is within 6 squares)

Yuuzhan Vong War Coordinator (Special abilities that grant bonuses to Yuuzhan Vong within 6 squares or commander effects normally limited to 6 squares of characters in your squad (including this character) have unlimited range. You may not have more than one character with Yuuzhan Vong War Coordinator in your squad.)


So Slave is a special ability. Check.
Slave is limited to six squares Check.

So if that range is extended to unlimited, then slave would read:

Slave (This character has Savage and -2 Defense unless an allied commander is within UNLIMITED RANGE)


I am not trying to be obstinate, I am obviously missing something.


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 Post subject: Re: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:37 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Slave does not grant a "bonus" I think is the key term. It grants two penalties.

I believe, although it's not totally clear, Swinefeld hits on another part of it. YVWC is meant to work on figures granting SA to other figures, not on extending a range of a SA on a figure itself. We can always add a line to the glossary/FAQ for clarity if its needed, as I could see this as potentially confusing (like could a Thud Bug be considered a SA granting a bonus and inadvertently change the range from 6 to unlimited?). It's not supposed to, but we might need a sentence or two to make it clear. I'll wait for Scott or Nickname to chime in on that part of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:50 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
Slave does not grant a "bonus" I think is the key term. It grants two penalties.

I believe, although it's not totally clear, Swinefeld hits on another part of it. YVWC is meant to work on figures granting SA to other figures, not on extending a range of a SA on a figure itself. We can always add a line to the glossary/FAQ for clarity if its needed, as I could see this as potentially confusing (like could a Thud Bug be considered a SA granting a bonus and inadvertently change the range from 6 to unlimited?). It's not supposed to, but we might need a sentence or two to make it clear. I'll wait for Scott or Nickname to chime in on that part of it.


Yeah, Jake brought up the "bonus" part, and we thought that might be the "out". -2 is obviously not a bonus, but sometimes savage is (what if you had Celeste Morne on your squad?)

So it just gets sticky.

And it's a good point about granting a special ability vs just having a special ability. I think perhaps an extra sentence in the glossary for the sake of clarification would not hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:53 am 
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It's just like GOWK's CE, so there is technically no range. The squares listed is more of a condition "true/false" scenario than an actual range.

Slave: This character has Savage and -2 Defense unless an allied commander is within 6 squares.
GOWK: Each follower gets +4 Attack and +4 Defense as long as it has an ally within 6 squares.

Under Mas Amedda, GOWK's CE does not become:
Each follower gets +4 Attack and +4 Defense as long as it has an ally within UNLIMITED RANGE.

And Bill also hit it correct, Slave grants a penalty and not a bonus. Since the YVWC only extends "Special abilities that grant bonuses to Yuuzhan Vong within 6 squares" and not "Special abiliites to Yuuzhan Vong within 6 squares" then it does not affect Slave anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:36 am 
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I always thought it was because it says "within 6 of a commander" and not "within 6 of a commander effect"

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 Post subject: Re: Chazrach's slave ability
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:56 pm 
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Yeah, it doesn't work for two reasons:
1. It's a penalty, not a bonus.
2. It works a lot like GOWK's CE. The character that is being affected by Slave does have a range. The commander is not being affected by Slave. Nothing is being granted to a character within 6.

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