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 Post subject: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:35 am 
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This one is gonna be tricky to ask without pictures, but I'll give it a shot.

OK - a large or huge character can squeeze (large down to one square, huge down to 2 squares). And I know they can only squeeze past walls and closed doors, not to avoid characters, low objects, etc.

Can a large or huge character squeeze through somewhere when they could simply take a different path and not squeeze? For example I could squeeze through 2 pillars and save one square of movement, or I could go around the pillars for 1 extra square of movement. My option, correct?


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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:13 pm 
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depends on the squares, but typically no you can never choose to squeeze if you don't have to. Yes you should be able to squeeze through somewhere rather than go around, but you cannot choose to squeeze while you are going around to save a square.

Def need pictures on this.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:38 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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urbanjedi wrote:
depends on the squares, but typically no you can never choose to squeeze if you don't have to. Yes you should be able to squeeze through somewhere rather than go around, but you cannot choose to squeeze while you are going around to save a square.

Def need pictures on this.


Yes, Jason and I went over this last year in detail before Gencon. You cannot voluntarily squeeze to save a squad of movement. If 2 squares are available on your path, you must move through them without squeezing. You can only squeeze when the path requires it. You cannot choose an end square that requires voluntarily squeezing.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:15 pm 
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I think the situation being talked about would be like on Muunilist. Instead of going around all the pillers to get to the middle, you can squeeze through the pillers. You just can't squeeze between open spaces and the wall to avoid terrain/characters.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:16 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
Yes, Jason and I went over this last year in detail before Gencon. You cannot voluntarily squeeze to save a squad of movement. If 2 squares are available on your path, you must move through them without squeezing. You can only squeeze when the path requires it. You cannot choose an end square that requires voluntarily squeezing.


Please tell me your meaning what Sithborg is saying, cause Im confused on what you are saying here.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:33 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Yes, pretty much what Scott said. It is a very confusing question without pictures. Let me try to give you one.

XXlXX
XXlXX


OOl
OOl

If O are open squares, L are walls, and the XX represent the lancer's starting position and intended ending position. You cannot voluntarily squeeze to save a square of movement. You must move down 2, right 2, up 2. Moving down one, right 1 up 1, right 1, is not a legal choice. Now another example using the same letters.

XXlOOOO
XXlOOOO
OOOOlOO
OOOOOO
OOOlOOO
OOlOOXX
OOlOOXX

To get from the upper left, to the lower right, the lancer can take two paths. One requires sqeezing. In this case, you can choose a path that requires squeezing. The path w/o, down 2, right 2, up 2, right 2, down 5 takes 13 movement. One of the squeezing paths, down 2, right 4, down 3 takes 9 squares. Both are legal paths.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:40 am 
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Fantastic, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:55 am 
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The two basic rules from Nickname from last year were.

1. You cannot EVER squeeze when you do not have to (ie you can't ride down a wall when the next square is open) to save squares

2. You can go ANYWHERE a medium based character can go

So to determine if what you want to do is legal, you just apply 1 and 2 and you are all set.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:37 am 
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urbanjedi wrote:
The two basic rules from Nickname from last year were.

1. You cannot EVER squeeze when you do not have to (ie you can't ride down a wall when the next square is open) to save squares

2. You can go ANYWHERE a medium based character can go

So to determine if what you want to do is legal, you just apply 1 and 2 and you are all set.



I think rule # 1 is what started the conversation. It was like, "I'm gonna squeeze through these pillars" - "You can't do that since there is a path around the pillars that you can make that you don't have to squeeze. You cannot squeeze if you don't have to."

I think I understand what you mean by #1 - it's more like you can only squeeze when there is a wall or closed door on either side, but not any other time.


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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:53 am 
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In short:

The fact that there is an alternate route from A to B that does not require squeezing does not prevent you from choosing to take a different legal route that DOES require squeezing.

(Still a bit convoluted, but as simple as the question can be answered I believe...)

What a character can't do is move into a space that doesn't require squeezing in a squeezed state. That's tough to visualize:

Code:
AA
AA
█  █
█ CD
█ CD
█  █
BB
BB


If a large character starts at A, heading for B and moves straight down he would not be able to squeeze such that it would only occupy C and the wall squares to the left. Squeezing requires obstacles on BOTH sides and no other alternate move that prevents the necessity to be squeezed. So the character would need to move into the full size CD space even if it planned to continue moving down after that. And if non-beveled corners are preventing diagonal moves then the character is going to have to shift to the right once so that it occupies the BC space correctly when the opportunity presents.

And then the original question is answered in the diagram as well. The character is not required to take the longer route around the pillars to the right instead of squeezing through them.

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Last edited by NickName on Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:03 am 
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NickName wrote:
In short:

The fact that there is an alternate route from A to B that does not require squeezing does not prevent you from choosing to take a different legal route that DOES require squeezing.

(Still a bit convoluted, but as simple as the question can be answered I believe...)


Right - this is what I was getting at. Thanks. Squeezing would be a very rare thing if this were not the case.


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 Post subject: Re: large characters squeezing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:22 am 
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Cool. Edited in the simplest diagram I could think of that illustrates both the correct and incorrect interpretation (from your question) of this. Hope it helps when you have to pass it along to others.

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