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 Post subject: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:36 pm 
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I think I understand this, but just want to confirm.

When I bodyguard damage for a character with DR (say, a Human BG takes the damage that was intended for a Snowspeeder), does the BG take the original damage, or reduced damage (say it's a 20 damage shot, does the BG take the 20 damage or the 10 damage that the Snowspeeder would take)?

Same question again, but with Shields/Crab Armor/Dark Armor (I assume all of these are treated the same way). If I BG for a character with one of those abilities, can I make a save to reduce the damage that the Bodyguard takes? Resolving effects says BG must be resolved before these kinds of abilities, but does that mean that just the decision to Bodyguard must be made before rolling the saves (so I can't decide whether or not to Bodyguard based on the adjusted damage), or does that mean that if the original target of the attack has those abilities but the BG doesn't that I don't get to roll them at all if I choose to Bodyguard the damage?

What about Force Bubble? Say Darth Talon gets hit by a 30 damage shot; can she reduce this to 10 damage and then pass that 10 to the BG?


The FAQ is clear that for things like Cunning and Ion Gun the total damage is based on the original target, but the way the resolving effects section is worded it makes me think that I might not be able to use Armor and DR and such if I'm using Bodyguard.

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Glossary Text for Bodyguard: If the original target has the Shields special ability, you must decide whether a Bodyguard character will take the damage before the original target rolls for Shields.

Glossary Text for Damage Reduction: Resolve this ability only after all Bodyguard decisions have been made.


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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:50 pm 
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First off, I feel kinda dumb for going all the way to the FAQ and the resolving effects without even looking at the glossary. Dur hur. :lol:


Based on that, though, you don't get Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever when you choose to use Bodyguard, right? I'm pretty sure that's what that means, but I'm still a little hazy (it's been a long morning, lol).

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Echo wrote:
First off, I feel kinda dumb for going all the way to the FAQ and the resolving effects without even looking at the glossary. Dur hur. :lol:


Based on that, though, you don't get Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever when you choose to use Bodyguard, right? I'm pretty sure that's what that means, but I'm still a little hazy (it's been a long morning, lol).



So far as I understand it, the bodyguard takes the hit and Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever doesn't happen at all. Think of it like the bodyguard jumping in front of the shot.

In addition this applies to things like Assassin or Ion Gun. The Human bodyguard has to take the extra damage of a character with Assassin shooting a Snowspeeder that the human bodyguard is protecting

This also works in the opposite direction, say for example a character with Ion Gun shoots the snowspeeder (10 base, 30 with Ion Gun), the human bodyguard only takes 10dmg.

This is as I understand it.


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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:04 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Echo wrote:
First off, I feel kinda dumb for going all the way to the FAQ and the resolving effects without even looking at the glossary. Dur hur. :lol:


Based on that, though, you don't get Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever when you choose to use Bodyguard, right? I'm pretty sure that's what that means, but I'm still a little hazy (it's been a long morning, lol).



So far as I understand it, the bodyguard takes the hit and Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever doesn't happen at all. Think of it like the bodyguard jumping in front of the shot.

This also works in the opposite direction, say for example a character with Ion Gun shoots the snowspeeder (10 base, 30 with Ion Gun), the human bodyguard only takes 10dmg.

This is as I understand it.


That would make sense, but the FAQ specifically says this:

Quote:
Q: If a character uses the Bodyguard ability to protect a Droid hit by an enemy Jawa, who has a Damage rating of 10 and the Ion Gun ability (+20 Damage against Droid characters), does the Bodyguard character take 10 damage or 30 damage?

A: It takes 30 damage. Determine all damage based on the original target of the attack, then decide whether the Bodyguard character takes the resulting damage. Modifications to damage from critical hits, and abilities such as Cunning Attack, and the like, are all calculated based on the original target of the attack.


So the Human Bodyguard would take 30 damage in your situation.

Further in the FAQ I believe I found the answer to my original question, though:

Quote:
Q: If I have a character with Shields (such as a Destroyer Droid) adjacent to an ally with the Bodyguard special ability, and if my character with Shields is hit by an attack, can I have the Shields absorb some of the damage and then transfer the remaining damage to the ally with Bodyguard?

A: No. It may only use Shields if it takes the damage. If the damage is assigned to the Bodyguard, then Shields on the target character have no effect. However, if the Bodyguard character had Shields (or other abilities that trigger when the character takes damage) it may use them.




So it looks like it works one way, but not the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:20 pm 
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it seems pretty clear to me.

The droid example the bodyguard is choosing to take the 30 dmg that the droid was going to take.

with a snow speeder the BG is taking the damage it was going to take also. The difference being the Damage Reduction. Damage Reduction reduces amount of applied damage. so if you are going to take 50 dmg. you take it then apply your DR. But if the Bg doesnt have DR then you apply the 50 to it ad you are done.

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:32 pm 
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Echo wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Echo wrote:
First off, I feel kinda dumb for going all the way to the FAQ and the resolving effects without even looking at the glossary. Dur hur. :lol:


Based on that, though, you don't get Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever when you choose to use Bodyguard, right? I'm pretty sure that's what that means, but I'm still a little hazy (it's been a long morning, lol).



So far as I understand it, the bodyguard takes the hit and Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever doesn't happen at all. Think of it like the bodyguard jumping in front of the shot.

This also works in the opposite direction, say for example a character with Ion Gun shoots the snowspeeder (10 base, 30 with Ion Gun), the human bodyguard only takes 10dmg.

This is as I understand it.


That would make sense, but the FAQ specifically says this:

Quote:
Q: If a character uses the Bodyguard ability to protect a Droid hit by an enemy Jawa, who has a Damage rating of 10 and the Ion Gun ability (+20 Damage against Droid characters), does the Bodyguard character take 10 damage or 30 damage?

A: It takes 30 damage. Determine all damage based on the original target of the attack, then decide whether the Bodyguard character takes the resulting damage. Modifications to damage from critical hits, and abilities such as Cunning Attack, and the like, are all calculated based on the original target of the attack.


So the Human Bodyguard would take 30 damage in your situation.

Further in the FAQ I believe I found the answer to my original question, though:

Quote:
Q: If I have a character with Shields (such as a Destroyer Droid) adjacent to an ally with the Bodyguard special ability, and if my character with Shields is hit by an attack, can I have the Shields absorb some of the damage and then transfer the remaining damage to the ally with Bodyguard?

A: No. It may only use Shields if it takes the damage. If the damage is assigned to the Bodyguard, then Shields on the target character have no effect. However, if the Bodyguard character had Shields (or other abilities that trigger when the character takes damage) it may use them.




So it looks like it works one way, but not the other.


Yes - that's right. Sorry - I didn't mean to confuse anyone.

I had it backwards on the Assassin/bodyguard thing. Human BG would take more damage protecting a non-living from ion gun, but take less damage protecting a non-living from an Assassin.

Dean put it well - but to recap:
The bodyguard takes what the target would have taken, before Shields/VCA/Dark Armor/Force Bubble/DR/whatever. These abilities only apply when damage actually goes to the character with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Easiest way to remember it is Bodyguard is on the 'Youve been hit by an attack" step of the process, while any kind of damage reducers go off of the "You take X damage" step.

Same way with Deflect, etc. You cant reduce the damage with anything until after the attack actually hits you.

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Yep, that's how I thought that it worked, but the wording wasn't 100% clear on it. Thanks guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Okay, so extrapolating this a bit, what if the bodyguard had shields or DR or Dark Armor? Then we'd have a VERY annoying BG, methinks. :P
(And no, that 45pt Jensaarai Defender doesn't count, because he's overcosted.)

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:49 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Okay, so extrapolating this a bit, what if the bodyguard had shields or DR or Dark Armor? Then we'd have a VERY annoying BG, methinks. :P
(And no, that 45pt Jensaarai Defender doesn't count, because he's overcosted.)


Yep, if the bodyguard had one of those abilities, it would work. And would be pretty sweet, too....

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:47 pm 
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Echo wrote:
Yep, if the bodyguard had one of those abilities, it would work. And would be pretty sweet, too....

...says the V-Set Designer.... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:02 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Okay, so extrapolating this a bit, what if the bodyguard had shields or DR or Dark Armor? Then we'd have a VERY annoying BG, methinks. :P
(And no, that 45pt Jensaarai Defender doesn't count, because he's overcosted.)


Where were you guys during the clone strike days? We used to see it all the time. Padme Amidala from CS - adjacent followers gain bodyguard. Back then you gave it to Agen Kolar who was so stout, (LS Deflect, LS Block and recovery 20!?!) so he could soak up all the damage. But then after champions came out, you gave it to an Acklay with a varactyle wrangle within 6. That was 10 damage off every BG'd attack, whether or not it was from a lightsaber.

It obviously fell out of use, because DR 10 just isn't enough these days. Now if you could ever give it to an ally with Advanced Shields 2 or Crab armor 2 - now we'd be talking!


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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:15 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Okay, so extrapolating this a bit, what if the bodyguard had shields or DR or Dark Armor? Then we'd have a VERY annoying BG, methinks. :P
(And no, that 45pt Jensaarai Defender doesn't count, because he's overcosted.)


Where were you guys during the clone strike days? We used to see it all the time. Padme Amidala from CS - adjacent followers gain bodyguard. Back then you gave it to Agen Kolar who was so stout, (LS Deflect, LS Block and recovery 20!?!) so he could soak up all the damage. But then after champions came out, you gave it to an Acklay with a varactyle wrangle within 6. That was 10 damage off every BG'd attack, whether or not it was from a lightsaber.

It obviously fell out of use, because DR 10 just isn't enough these days. Now if you could ever give it to an ally with Advanced Shields 2 or Crab armor 2 - now we'd be talking!

Actually, it fell out of use because they changed the BG rules. In those days, you could use DR, then BG, then use DR again. So it was a Wrangler, 2 Acklays, Padme and whatever shooter (usually Aurra) you wanted to live forever all in a bunch. So you'd in effect actually have DR20. If you added in a heal 10 character, those Acklay's never died. Once they changed it, the squad fell out of favor, as DR10 wasn't worth running the Acklays any longer. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:49 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Okay, so extrapolating this a bit, what if the bodyguard had shields or DR or Dark Armor? Then we'd have a VERY annoying BG, methinks. :P
(And no, that 45pt Jensaarai Defender doesn't count, because he's overcosted.)


Where were you guys during the clone strike days? We used to see it all the time. Padme Amidala from CS - adjacent followers gain bodyguard. Back then you gave it to Agen Kolar who was so stout, (LS Deflect, LS Block and recovery 20!?!) so he could soak up all the damage. But then after champions came out, you gave it to an Acklay with a varactyle wrangle within 6. That was 10 damage off every BG'd attack, whether or not it was from a lightsaber.

It obviously fell out of use, because DR 10 just isn't enough these days. Now if you could ever give it to an ally with Advanced Shields 2 or Crab armor 2 - now we'd be talking!

Actually, it fell out of use because they changed the BG rules. In those days, you could use DR, then BG, then use DR again. So it was a Wrangler, 2 Acklays, Padme and whatever shooter (usually Aurra) you wanted to live forever all in a bunch. So you'd in effect actually have DR20. If you added in a heal 10 character, those Acklay's never died. Once they changed it, the squad fell out of favor, as DR10 wasn't worth running the Acklays any longer. :)


Yeah, that's right. The DR on the Bodyguard still works, but the DR on the target does not.

It's a good things there's no way of turning the Series 2 Destroyer Droids into bodyguards.


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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:09 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Okay, so extrapolating this a bit, what if the bodyguard had shields or DR or Dark Armor? Then we'd have a VERY annoying BG, methinks. :P
(And no, that 45pt Jensaarai Defender doesn't count, because he's overcosted.)


Where were you guys during the clone strike days? We used to see it all the time. Padme Amidala from CS - adjacent followers gain bodyguard. Back then you gave it to Agen Kolar who was so stout, (LS Deflect, LS Block and recovery 20!?!) so he could soak up all the damage. But then after champions came out, you gave it to an Acklay with a varactyle wrangle within 6. That was 10 damage off every BG'd attack, whether or not it was from a lightsaber.

It obviously fell out of use, because DR 10 just isn't enough these days. Now if you could ever give it to an ally with Advanced Shields 2 or Crab armor 2 - now we'd be talking!


Actually, it fell out of use because they changed the BG rules. In those days, you could use DR, then BG, then use DR again. So it was a Wrangler, 2 Acklays, Padme and whatever shooter (usually Aurra) you wanted to live forever all in a bunch. So you'd in effect actually have DR20. If you added in a heal 10 character, those Acklay's never died. Once they
changed it, the squad fell out of favor, as DR10 wasn't worth running the Acklays any longer. :)


Yeah, that's right. The DR on the Bodyguard still works, but the DR on the target does not.

It's a good things there's no way of turning the Series 2 Destroyer Droids into bodyguards.


Yet,........muhahahahha jk

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 Post subject: Re: Bodyguardin'
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:01 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
So it was a Wrangler, 2 Acklays, Padme and whatever shooter (usually Aurra) you wanted to live forever all in a bunch. So you'd in effect actually have DR20. If you added in a heal 10 character, those Acklay's never died.

Sounds like a mystery map squad!

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