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 Post subject: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:03 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Why is the definition for telepathic insight so obscure? It says "choose one commamder effect" when the glossary says it means "choose an enemy character's commander effect." In the future when introducing new rules perhapse we should try to make the definition on the cards more accurately reflect the rule. This way if there are newer players to the game they can more easily understand the rules without having to dig through an online glossary.
-Arch


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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:32 am 
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Sorry that it was a frustration for you Arch. We try to do the best we can and make everything a clear and consistent as possible, though sometimes something slips by and we don't see it until after the cards have been sent to the printer.

We're trying to improve the process so we don't miss a thing, but even WotC missed stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:00 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Archdeluxe wrote:
Why is the definition for telepathic insight so obscure? It says "choose one commamder effect" when the glossary says it means "choose an enemy character's commander effect." In the future when introducing new rules perhapse we should try to make the definition on the cards more accurately reflect the rule. This way if there are newer players to the game they can more easily understand the rules without having to dig through an online glossary.
-Arch


So you had new players trying to take their own Commander Effect? And to what strategic benefit did this provide? I really don't believe a new player first tried to do that, and second that it made such an impact that this post was needed. Seriously dude, we do our absolute best to catch this kind of stuff. 99% of people will assume it means "enemy" and wouldn't even notice the word was missing. If you had a new player catch this, then they are a rules lawyer, and I can give you 500-600 other things from WotC that would be at least as easy to read incorrectly. This game requires the glossary and FAQ to play it correctly. I know all of the best judges in the United States, and none of us are ever fully clear on everything. We all have to look at this stuff from time to time. It's best if you introduce new players with that as part of the expectation to playing correctly for the purposes of tournaments. In friendly play, I have no idea how this particular rule would become abusive.

Your suggestion is noted, and we are already doing it to the best of our ability. But if your expectation is that we will catch every possible thing, then you will be greatly disappointed. We cannot hope for perfection, we can only strife to do better than WotC, and we have done so I believe by a large margin.

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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:34 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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My intention was not to put anyone on the defensive and I am certainly not impugning anyones efforts. I'm sorry if I tread on anyones toes. At the risk of sounding stupid: I honestly thought that the lack of specificity on that rule meant that you could choose ANY commander effect (including those not in play by either army.) As to how one could be benefitted by stealing your own chars CE, Talz Chieftain comes to mind imediately.
Just wanted to give my 2 cents on how things could be improved going forward. Maybe there could be a post shortly before printing where all the new rules could be posted and discussed. That way the community could have clerical input on the text. An open beta of sorts. The rules need not even be associated w/ specific cards. The goal would be to put the clearest version of the rule possible onto the printed card.
-Arch


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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:56 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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To be fair, we do have playtesters trying out these cards and we listen to them if they mention any problems they have with the ability. If there is anything still vague with the ability, one should always check the Glossary as well as the FAQ to get all ins and outs.

I do agree that we should have used the word "enemy" for clarification's sake (especially given the Talz Chiefain's CE as you mentioned). But, we actually did release the stats for this figure before we sent it off to the printers and no one in the community voiced a lot of opinions on the finalized version.


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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:03 am 
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Actually, Arch, there is a thread prior to every set where potential CEs and abilities are encouraged to be introduced and discussed. Its very important that the community give their input as to the direction in general this game should take, the characters they want to see, and what new mechanics are needed to get there. The designers take all of that input and create the next set. Although I am not part of that process (save the occasional playtesting) I am privaledged to see all that they do to bring everything to the finished card. I can tell you that they do labor over wording and grammar to the extent that I saw an apology recently by someone who missed a comma! While your idea of throwing it open to the community to assist in that process sounds like a good idea, it would slow the process down greatly. You'd inevitably have people ignoring wordage and insisting that this CE or that ability shouldn't be on this or that character. Most of the community would be anxious to actually help like you obviously are, but there will always be a few who wouldn't see the big picture and bog down the process by arguing over stupid stuff. They wouldn't see that this game, even with its physical representations of figures and maps, is an abstraction.

While I'd love to be a part of the design process myself, I recognize that it is a bigger task than I am capable of handling. I don't think 1. I have a grasp of the meta game and how to impact/not impact it and 2. Star Wars canon. That doesn't mean I don't have good ideas. When I get them or hear them from others I use those threads I spoke of, and would encourage those in the community to do the same.

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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:14 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Ok, I certainly see your point on how that could slow the process. How can I apply to assist in the playtesting? I think in that capacity I could to help improve a product for a community that does include the occasional "rules lawyer." I know we can't please everyone, but that shouldn't keep us from striving for excellence. I would like the chance help achieve that.
-Arch


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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:19 pm 
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If you have a playgroup that meets regularly, contact David Weeks (Weeks on most forums) to see if he needs your group to playtest. Playtesting is the best way to initially discover wording issues as well as the impact the piece will have on meta.

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 Post subject: Re: telepathic obscurity
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Archdeluxe wrote:
Why is the definition for telepathic insight so obscure? It says "choose one commamder effect" when the glossary says it means "choose an enemy character's commander effect." In the future when introducing new rules perhapse we should try to make the definition on the cards more accurately reflect the rule. This way if there are newer players to the game they can more easily understand the rules without having to dig through an online glossary.
-Arch


It is a learning process. For set 2, Nickname and I were allowed to see the stuff sooner, and see some of the discussions, to better input on the wordings. That said, the insert/FAQ are just as important as what is on the card. New players should at least peruse the glossary/FAQ after reading the rules, and this is no different than with the V sets. Some abilities will quite possibly have to be shortened. "Force Abilities" where a necessary evil, for example.

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