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 Post subject: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:16 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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With regards to Tactician and Reserves, do you go by the initial roll, or the roll +# to bring in characters?


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:18 pm 
Jedi Battlemaster
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I believe you go by the final result, the number you rolled + tactician.
according to the rules insert I'm right!

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:15 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:28 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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I think, when I asked this on BlooMilk before it went down, the answer from Bill was that Tactician X may affect the roll but the die roll must be the natural number needed to get the reserves.

Ex. The player has The Revanchist, which has Tact 8, and Lobot, CLO, which has Fringe Reserves 30 and triggered by a roll of 11. The init that is rolled is 3, with Tact 8, the final result is 11. However, since it wasn't a natural 11, it doesn't count. However, if the natural roll was an 11, with Tact 8, then it becomes a 19 but since the roll is a natural 11, reserves are triggered.

When BlooMilk comes up, I will double check as there are some details that were added prior to the crash that may have some relevance.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:42 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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Glossary text of Tactician:
Add +[#] to the initiative roll except on a roll of 1. Abilities based on a particular roll (such as reserves) and ties are resolved based on the modified number. If a tie requires rerolling initiative, this ability cannot be used on the reroll.

The modified number would be "init roll+tactician". So reserves would be based on the final result. If Bill stated otherwise, then he was incorrect in that ruling.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:47 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Probably that was cleared up prior to BM going down. I just wasn't able to see the full answer and any clarifications.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:03 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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yep, it was, I was referencing an earlier version of the ability, and forgot the final ruling and glossary. Sithborg corrected it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:50 pm 
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if init is a tie and we reroll. you cant use your tactician bonus on the reroll? then thrawn or reven with m.t. can lose init 2 ways. by rolling a 1 and by tying with opponent and opponent then rerolls higher than thrawn. M.T. was originally explained as adding +20 to init except on a roll of 1 and if you cant use that on the reroll then you cant add +20 to the reroll. good to know considering i have always played that wrong and so has everyone else ive ever seen in that position.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:22 pm 
Jedi Battlemaster
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@ sthlrd2

Sorry, you've got that mixed up.

Master Tactician means you win init, except on a roll of 1. If you tie your opponent, you both reroll.. and provided that your second roll is not a 1, you will still win.

EDIT: I was wrong.. SB is the man :D
My response about MT stands, but SB has the Tactician +X ruling below.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:54 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Tactician works like Tactics Broker. You do not get the bonus on a reroll.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:29 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Sithborg wrote:
Tactician works like Tactics Broker. You do not get the bonus on a reroll.

wait so if my opp has the MTB and rolls a 1. We reroll he cant use TB?
is that right?


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:26 pm 
Death Star Designers
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jonnyb815 wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Tactician works like Tactics Broker. You do not get the bonus on a reroll.

wait so if my opp has the MTB and rolls a 1. We reroll he cant use TB?
is that right?


Correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:53 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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so I should of been able to kill cad bane in the second round of the tournament vs the vong bomb squad in Chicago darn.
I dont think it cost me the game but it cost me two wookiees and cad not dying o well.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:40 pm 
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Yep it how I managed to beat Tim in rd 4 of the Regional.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:37 pm 
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@ johnny
I don't ever remember rolling a 1 for init and if i did i knew not to blow up a second piece to still win init so im not sure what ur talking about.

Towards the ruling of tactician +# over master tactician I don't like that. Not that I'm arguing, if that's the way it is then fine that's the way it is but master tactician was the first ability that we had like that and only untill the v-set (if I remember correct). I have always known m.t. Since it came out wth the first thrawn that mt has been add +20 to init except on a roll of 1 obviously winning every time. If that's the way it is then I think we got regular tactician wrong. I think mt should eaither not be used on rerolls or tactician should be used. Either way rules are rules, that's just my two cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:13 pm 
Death Star Designers
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(shrug)

Tactician +X is much more close to Tactics Broker than Master Tactician. Even in the modifying of the rolls, it is much closer to Tactics Brokers, which changes the opponent's roll, vs Master Tactician which just says you choose who goes first. In the end, it still fits, as Master Tactician is much better than Tactician +X.

While it may help you to think of Master Tactician as +20, it is a bad way to think about it, especially with all the new Tacticians that can get higher than a 22 for init. That and the rules issues of Reserves.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
(shrug)
While it may help you to think of Master Tactician as +20, it is a bad way to think about it, especially with all the new Tacticians that can get higher than a 22 for init. That and the rules issues of Reserves.


the mt as +20 was the original way that wizards explained it which I know isn't the best source to go off of but seeing as mt was their creation and tacticion +X was our creation I just assumed we would be following their rules for a similar like ability.

I'm not trying to argue or say that your wrong I'm just stating why I thought that and why I think we should be following the same standerd all the way across. As I like the ability of tacticion +X but I'm not sure how the playtesting went when compared to mt. But maybe we didn't think of everything when comparing it to the way wizards originally explained it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 6:40 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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According to WotC's Official Rules (aka the Rulesbook), the Glossary Text of Master Tactician is:
"Roll for iniative as normal, except you automatically choose who goes first unless you roll a 1. Tide iniative checks are still rerolled. If more than one squad has a character with Master Tactician, the player with the highest iniative roll among them chooses who goes first."

Where had WotC explained MT as 20+? That's definitely not in the rules, and we go by the rules. If it was a commentary on one of the articles of the website, those are known to be riddled with wrong statements.

The interaction of Tactician and Master Tactician is that you both roll with your opponent getting the +[#] from Tactician yet unless you a roll a 1 you always choose who goes first. If you tie with the final values, you still have to reroll yet on the reroll your opponent won't get the +[#] for Tactician.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactician and reserves
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:16 pm 
Master of the Order
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There was a league scenario that replaced the definition of MT with adding 20 to the roll. That may be where the confusion stems from.

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