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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:08 pm 
Mandalore
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I agree with a lot of what has been said, especially with what Bill said. Having one (Note 1) map that is set in a way that it will help a certain build is okay since so many play at home now. I no longer have a group. It is done. So I play here at home but have the same concern with maps. Is it going to be fun to use or will it really just be a hurting for one side to the other.

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:49 am 
Death Star Designers
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R5Don4 and I have been playtesting Kamino for awhile now, and it's prompted some minor layout changes, in addition to improving huge accessibility.

The only major layout changes are a wall joining the bottom two rooms and some of the columns around the large buildings are L's now to provide better cover.
EDIT: Gambit is more open now too, but the important LOS's are still blocked by the center column.

Image

Basically, most of the walkways can now fit a huge, and increasing the width from 2 to 3 square wide has made the diplomat wall a little less effective. This turns out to be a good map for defending against Yoda on Kybuck as he tends to burn a lot of movement circling around to attack you and you can barricade his progress with a few tougher figures. We haven't tried it with the lancer yet (gotta do that next week), but I suspect that squad will still be powerful here.

It's also a decent map for a snowspeeder squad as the walkways make it a little tougher for opponents to catch you, and flight means you can get around pretty quickly with a good number of places to land.


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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:32 pm 
General
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I like it. All of my Kamino sketches have been far too shooter-friendly for competitive play, which is why I never took them the rest of the way. This looks like a winner, though.

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:45 am 
Death Star Designers
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Mapmaker wrote:
I like it. All of my Kamino sketches have been far too shooter-friendly for competitive play, which is why I never took them the rest of the way. This looks like a winner, though.


Ever since I made the Geonosis map back in 2005 I've wanted to do Kamino. I was always sad you never got to make the location for WotC.


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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:15 am 
Death Star Designers
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I like this map as well. You did a really good job with the gambit creation.

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:27 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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After playing on this map a few times times, many builds are completely nerfed by it from either side. If you don't bring multiple Override, and Flight in at a minimum you are pretty screwed because all of the choke points have multiple doors. The map is just too difficult to advance very far without leaving yourself open. I will say that the lines of sight are very well thought out for shooting and controling doors.

If the water was Rough Terrain instead of Pits it would be a much more playable map but Josh says Kamino is miles deep ocean not a kiddy pool. As it is now, it has no chance of being a restricted list map, so give Josh props for sticking to his guns and going through with it anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:33 pm 
Death Star Designers
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R5Don4 is pretty much spot on. After playing a bunch of different builds with him on it, I can definitely say that Kamino would have a game warping effect on the meta.

The experiment continues in the interest of making the map as restricted-list friendly as possible though.

Regardless, I do maintain that the game needs a Kamino map even if just for the standard list and scenario play.


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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:18 pm 
Death Star Designers
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R5Don4 wrote:
...If the water was Rough Terrain instead of Pits...


I had a brainwave just now. I was looking at some rough artwork I had done for an older version of the map and it included graphics for the curving domes that extended well into the pits. If I make those graphics difficult terrain, you could have treacherous walkways along the outside of all the buildings which would definitely help the override issue. It also increases the number of squares you have to block with diplomats to create a wall.

Have a look:

Image

Now, there's a catch.

Most of these new difficult terrain squares will require the adjacent walls to be cut off (the 45º chopped ones) to permit diagonal movement along them. I know the rules for wall lines that don't extend to corners are iffy regarding LOS, so it's a discussion I'd like to have.

Based on that discussion, these changes will affect LOS in some places and I haven't rechecked the map yet to see if anything was broken by doing so.


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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:35 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Beveled corners only allow for movement. They wouldn't change LoS.

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:50 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Nice creative solution!

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:13 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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The ledges did the trick. I'm not sure if it is now Restricted List bound but it is a much better map to play on. The ledges do take a bit to get through but at least there is now an avenue, rather than being totally shut out.

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:13 pm 
Intelligence Operative
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Love the latest look to it. One final request, maybe extend the rough terrain along the bottom left to right walkway from two to three squares wide, it onl requires four additional rough terrain squares to make it work and would help open up the south side of the map. Great job though and I hope to see this on the restricted list.


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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:49 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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yeah no action ever really seemed to go down along the south, pretty much either along the top or middle. I don't think that is really such a bad thing though. It is usually used as a good way to sneak a piece along to the middle or the other side.

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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:14 am 
Intelligence Operative
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R5Don4 wrote:
yeah no action ever really seemed to go down along the south, pretty much either along the top or middle. I don't think that is really such a bad thing though. It is usually used as a good way to sneak a piece along to the middle or the other side.


Or you could pencil in a lounge/dance club in that southern room, that would be sure to bring up popularity haha.

It's nice to have another route for huges though, one day they will be good again.. One day...


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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:07 am 
Black Sun Thug
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armoredgear7 wrote:
Have a look:

Image


Link broken. :?


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 Post subject: Re: updating an old Kamino layout for a future SWM league kit
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:52 am 
Master of the Order
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Lex wrote:
armoredgear7 wrote:
Have a look:

Image


Link broken. :?


http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3285/kaminowalkways.png


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