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 Post subject: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:49 am 
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Played a sealed yesterday and towards the end of the game we ran into questions regarding reprogram and I wanted to check if we played it right. I have a series 2 wth 10 hp left a nr vet trooper and skyme reek wth 50 hp left. My opponent has bastilla with 80 left based to my destroyer a jawa chief wthn 6 and vong high bred wth 10 hp left it's my turn and I only have my destroyer left, he only has the jawa chief left. I double on bastilla and both hit she's down to 40 hp. His jawa moves up and reprograms my destroyer and I fail my save. I win init and rush up my reek to try and kill bastilla who is the only target. I roll a 3 and spend my last fp to reroll, another miss. He says he is going to activate the reprogramed destroyer. He fails his save. Then he said but it takes 10 damage and dies so no harm. I said nope sheild saves first. He said no shields save this is just an auto 10 damage from wthn and he dies. After a min of arguing that I do get my shield saves he agrees but then can't decide who makes the shield saves does he make them before the droid rejoins my squad or do I make them. We decided it was same time and so he got to pick what order. He said ok and then tried to say that shields were opitional and if it was his save then he chose not to make them and the droid dies. I disagreed that shields were optional and for the sake of keeping the game going he decided to "play it out wth shields being mandatory". He makes saves droid still lives but goes back to my squad. With his second activation he tries to reprogram again and I fail my save. He then said he never activated the destroyer before and was unactivated and was going to activate the destroyer as his second activation. I said he did activate before he just didn't get a chance to do anything cause he failed his save. Just like corruption if I fail my save and die I can't say well he never activated before he died so now I can go wth 2. He continued to argue and I let him have his way. So he makes the save this time and doubles my reek rolls a 19 and 20 and gave him the game. Afterwards he went off on some rant about reprogram was an interesting idea but was sloppy and that should have been taken care off before being released. He said it just caused to many questions to use it. So after reading my review (if you can follow it). Im not the best at explaing things I know but who was right regarding these questions. This was a more laid back game but just got us both worked up wth all the questions that arose from this one ability. I think for the most part I understand the rules but this was my first time playing wth reprogram and my opponent obviously didn't agree wth me so just wondering how to handle this in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:33 am 
Big Bad Brad
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I'm pretty sure all your questions are answered in the definition of Reprogram.

Shields are mandatory, even against "auto" damage. They clearly state whenever you take damage, a source is unnecassarily complicated.

Judging from the wording within reprogramming (A, B, C) then I would say he makes the Shields save.

The character then remains unactivated.

The character rejoins the squad.

But yeah, I really don't see the "sloppy" comment as I got all my answers directly from the card text of Reprogram and Shields.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:27 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Jake - let's see if the following answers all your questions. If anything doesn't fit, then respond so I can be more clear on it.

Shield saves are mandatory, just like evade, parry, dominate, etc. There is a specific FAQ question on this I believe, that states you cannot voluntarily fail a save, they must be rolled (under CS Yoda I think).

The acting player makes the save, so with something like reprogram, it will always be the player that the droid belonged to when making the reprogram save. The damage and the changing sides occur in one step, and you cannot finish that step without resolving damage. Shields interrupts the process immediately, and would occur before resolving the full action of changing sides and taking damage. I can certainly see how it could be confusing, but I wouldn't say it's particularly sloppy. Probably a good FAQ question I suppose.

Edit * - "remains unactivated" is the key words for reprogram. The character would be unactivated when it returned to your squad, and the opponent on his turn can choose to try to get it back with another character.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:54 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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In the definition of Reprogram it does say the Droid is unactivated after you fail the save. So when he goes back to your squad, it would be unactivated so you can activate him. And once your opponent Reprograms him again, it would still be unactivated.

Definition wrote:
Replace attacks: touch; target enemy droid joins this character's squad, save 11. Each time the reprogrammed character would activate, it must first attempt a save of 11; on a failure, that character takes 10 damage, remains unactivated, rejoins the original squad, and is no longer reprogrammed.


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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:59 am 
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jedispyder wrote:
In the definition of Reprogram it does say the Droid is unactivated after you fail the save. So when he goes back to your squad, it would be unactivated so you can activate him. And once your opponent Reprograms him again, it would still be unactivated.

Definition wrote:
Replace attacks: touch; target enemy droid joins this character's squad, save 11. Each time the reprogrammed character would activate, it must first attempt a save of 11; on a failure, that character takes 10 damage, remains unactivated, rejoins the original squad, and is no longer reprogrammed.


How in the world did I miss that? Lol, ok deleting my last point in the previous comment. Lol at myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:48 pm 
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I guess I always read it that if I have a reprogramed droid then I am using one of my activations to attempt to use the droid. The save failed so I don't get to use him but it still counted as an activation for me. But because I never got to use him and he is no longer reprogramed then the origanal squad could still activate him. Maybe I'm the only one who sees the resemblence to using plageus and coruption 4. If he corupts my guy who has 80 hp. I take 40 and have 40 remaining. Now it's my turn and I am going to use one of my activations to attempt to use him. I failed my save and he dies thus I don't get to use him. So I was asking if it counted as one of my activations to either use my corupted character or a reprogramed droid and I fail my save.

But wth the way you guys are answering, it seems to me that 1) you guys are not understanding my question fully, or 2) I am and have always been looking at both coruption and reprogram wrong.

And would it be the same if I failed the save the droid takes 10 and dies. With how I understand your answers then no it would not matter. So if I have 3 reprogramed droids all near dead I could say I'm activating droid A and fail the save. Droid A takes 10 and dies. I'm activating droid B and fail the save. Droid B takes 10 and dies. Neither one of them counted towards my activating so I'm activating droid C and fail the save. Droid C takes 10 and dies and never counted towards my activations so activation 1 shoot with jawa scavenger #1 cunning 20, ion gun 20, droid D takes 50 and dies. Activation 2 shoot with jawa scavenger #2 cunning 20, ion gun 20, droid E takes 50 and dies. In all I had 5 activations but only 2 counted and killed 5 droids. Now who gets all the points. I do for the 2 that were shot by the scavengers but what about the other 3. I could see one guy saying. "I damaged and killed the droid so I get the points". And the other guy say "well he was on your squad and never got to go back to my squad so I get the points.

Unless I'm wrong again. Judging off of what I know and what you told me in this post is that the player with the jawas would kill 5 droids on 3 fake activations and 2 real activations and get all the points for those dead droids.

But if I had 3 corupted characters and I activated 1, fail the save and die and activate 2 fail the save and die. Then my turn is done those counted as my activations regardless of if I got to use them or not.

I'm not trying to argue against the rule and how it was written, I just want to understand the entire ability inside and out so that questions like this won't come up.
When I first saw the ability I thought of coruption except for droids. And maybe these situations won't come up very often but I play competativly and have a very non-competive group near me so I see all kinds of weird situations. So I'm not trying to argue or disagree I just want to understand it completly. In my non-competative group I am the only one who plays competativly as well so I am the guy they turn to for rule clearifications which is another reason I want to understand these rules inside and out.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:08 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Ahhhhh, yes I see, you didn't ask your question correctly ;) like by using [enter] or (.) to separate your thoughts :D

I see your real question now.

In the case of corruption, it is worded "Each time a character activates it must attempt a save" so the state of activation is pretty clear here.

In regards to Regprogram, it's worded differently: It must first attempt a save....remains unactivated.

Judging from this wording, then attempting the Reprogram save does NOT count as one of your activations in you fail the save. Was that the intent? I don't know. Will it change? I don't know. But that's a pretty fair answer given the text and definitions at hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Also going by the wording, if the character fails the save, then failed the Shield and took the last 10 damage, it is actually defeated on your opponents squad as it hasn't reached the step (according to the text) where it rejoins your squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:17 pm 
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In its simplest form it sounds like the important questions are these:

Q: If I have reprogrammed droid on my squad and try to activate it with my first of two activations for the phase and fail the save, do I still have 2 activations remaining this phase?
A: Yes.

Q: If I have reprogrammed droid on my squad and try to activate it and fail the save causing the droid to be defeated, do I score the points for the droid or does my opponent?
A: Your opponent. The droid was on your squad when it was defeated.

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 Post subject: Re: Reprogram and if we got it right?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:03 pm 
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got it now. thank you.

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