logo

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:02 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3568
billiv15 wrote:
There are not multiple steps to reinforcements. It is one action. And as with most things, you cannot interrupt an action unless it specifically says you can do so (djem so for example). Set up is a series of actions to a degree, but there is no designated breakdown of the individual acts within it. As it's written, TI happens at the same time as Reinforcements, not before, and not after, which means simultaneous effect rule enters into it.

And as always, the acting player is the person with it. I see no reason within the rules that would suggest the person with the Yam cannot take a Reinforcement CE if they choose to wait until after reinforcements are revealed to name it.

Again, the precedent for this I believe is the ending/beginning override and door resolution. You cannot interrupt the override resolution and even though it's multiple actions, it's considered one step. Choosing reinforcements is also one step - even though there are mutiple actions.

And once reinforcements are chosen, is it not still the set up time that the Yam requires? Of course it is, because you have not moved into a new step in the sequence, and you have not resolved TI. There is nothing the opposing player can do to force you to choose before revealing his/her reinforcements in my opinion.



There are not multiple steps to reinforcements. It is one action. And as with most things, you cannot interrupt an action unless it specifically says you can do so (djem so for example). Set up is a series of actions to a degree, but there is no designated breakdown of the individual acts within it. As it's written, Reinforcements happens at the same time as TI, not before, and not after, which means simultaneous effect rule enters into it.

And as always, the acting player is the person with it. I see no reason within the rules that would suggest the person with Reinforcements cannot wait until after TI is declared to reveal them.

Again, the precedent for this I believe is the ending/beginning override and door resolution. You cannot interrupt the override resolution and even though it's multiple actions, it's considered one step. Choosing reinforcements is also one step - even though there are mutiple actions.

And once TI is chosen, is it not still the set up time that Reinforcements requires? Of course it is, because you have not moved into a new step in the sequence, and you have not resolved Reinforcements. There is nothing the opposing player can do to force you to choose before revealing his/her reinforcements in my opinion.




I'm pretty uncertain as to the differences between my post and yours.






drkjedi35 wrote:
Tell me if I'm wrong here, but if you are trying to get keep the Vong from stealing Ozzels CE, can't you just go with a 12pt Star Destroyer Officer and Admiral Gilad Pellaeon? Pellaeon's CE doesn't happen until AFTER setup, which means Reinforcements AND Telepathic Insight have gone as they are used DURING setup. Then you could just swap out the SDO for Ozzel. The SDO's CE won't help the vong so you're safe there. Of course you are still left with a 16pt Pellaeon in your squad. But it might be worth it to keep the Vong from getting tempo control. Comments?

Roy


Yeah, that's an option. It also means that if you get a matchup where you don't want Ozzel you just choose to switch him to some other <12 point Imperial piece.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:15 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
The One True Sith Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:12 pm
Posts: 2026
Location: Nixa,Missouri
I am pretty sure that the judges will be instructed at Gencon to allow the TI to occur after reinforcments are chosen. It has always seemed clear to me but then again so many rules have seemed clear to me that others read differently.

So for Gencon lets plan on TI after reinforcements have been chosen. Anyone Bill or Daniel have issue with that?

_________________
ImageImage
"What is your bidding, My Master?"

Collection: 934/934

SWM DCI Content Manager


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:21 pm 
Big Bad Brad
Big Bad Brad
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am
Posts: 5343
You know I was thinking more about this:

Step 1: Reveal Squads
Step 2: Reveal Reinforcements (if both players have Reinforcements, players build in secret and reveal simultaneously)
Step 3: Map Roll. Highest rolling player chooses map. Lowest player (Player A) chooses side and sets up or defers.
Step 4: Player A sets up (or B, in the case of a deferral) and any abilities besides Reinforcements that occur during set-up would happen in this step.
Step 5: Player B sets up (or B, in the case of a deferral) and any abilities besides Reinforcements that occur during set-up would happen in this step
Step 6: Resolve any abilities that happen after setup. In the case of Captain Palleon's CE both players resolve simultaneously (See Reinforcements).
Step 7: Resolve door status, if a character is adjacent to any door at this step, that door is considered open.
Step 8: Begin Skirmish

_________________
"200 or 2"
"Consistency is the key, not crying"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:22 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
Name Calling Internet Bully
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:10 pm
Posts: 6172
Location: Gurnee, IL
dnemiller wrote:
I am pretty sure that the judges will be instructed at Gencon to allow the TI to occur after reinforcments are chosen. It has always seemed clear to me but then again so many rules have seemed clear to me that others read differently.

So for Gencon lets plan on TI after reinforcements have been chosen. Anyone Bill or Daniel have issue with that?


Yep, that would be my ruling, and I think it is the correct one. :)

_________________
Image

http://www.bloomilk.com/Squads/Search.aspx?UserID=29


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:27 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 3568
dnemiller wrote:
I am pretty sure that the judges will be instructed at Gencon to allow the TI to occur after reinforcments are chosen. It has always seemed clear to me but then again so many rules have seemed clear to me that others read differently.

So for Gencon lets plan on TI after reinforcements have been chosen. Anyone Bill or Daniel have issue with that?


I'm fine with it either way (although I do think that bringing a commander in via Reinforcements to protect them from the Yammosk is kind of neat) as long as something is set in stone beforehand.

_________________
"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:31 pm 
Big Bad Brad
Big Bad Brad
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am
Posts: 5343
viewtopic.php?f=183&t=10595

_________________
"200 or 2"
"Consistency is the key, not crying"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights style by Scott Stubblefield