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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:38 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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-I'd like to see more alternate force traditions represented, any of the SAGA traditions are good candidates. I always thought JA would have been better if they put in a Zeishon Sha, Matukai adept and Baran Do sage instead of the 3 reprints. Plus, most traditions don't use lightsabers, so any generic piece can be used to represent a member of the tradition.
-I think a Fringe commander that boosts allies with Pilot is called for. The pieces we have with Pilot include commanders and are spread across numerous factions (Vader LotF in Empire, Lumiya and Krayt in Sith, Anakin in NR, etc) so one faction-specific commander won't cut it here.
-I like seeing older and lesser used abilities brought back in occasionally, and I think non-uniques are the best place to use some of them (think Kouhun Infestation on the ASN).
-Beyond that, as others have said, expanding the numerous sub-factions (ewoks, jawas, tuskens, black sun, etc) and using commanders to improve older pieces are both excellent ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:54 am 
Master of the Order
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A non-unique commander that removes the mercenary ability. (I always felt they missed the mark on the "mercenary commander")


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:43 am 
Warmaster
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TimmerB123 wrote:
A non-unique commander that removes the mercenary ability. (I always felt they missed the mark on the "mercenary commander")



I am not to keen on the mercenary SA either. You have to bare in mind though that if another CE removed the mercenary SA than that cannot be used with the mercenary commander we already have. that seem a little counter productive to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:55 am 
Master of the Order
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dreadtech wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
A non-unique commander that removes the mercenary ability. (I always felt they missed the mark on the "mercenary commander")



I am not to keen on the mercenary SA either. You have to bare in mind though that if another CE removed the mercenary SA than that cannot be used with the mercenary commander we already have. that seem a little counter productive to me.


True - different uses. It would simply be another option to use mercs. Anyway - I was referring to the Chagrian Merc Commander, which you could use together with this new proposed CE.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:01 pm 
General
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Wedge772 wrote:
We're not going to get a Boss Nass..


I wouldn't say "won't." What is more likely in such instances (Boss Nass was actually one of the pieces initially discussed as an add-in for the first V-set) is that a piece will be recommended for use with the stat card, even if it doesn't look exactly like the actual character.


Ugh. As much as I want a Boss Nass piece, I think doing that is a bad idea. The minis should do a reasonable job of representing what the stats say it is, otherwise it gets really out of hand. I don't mind taking additional liberties with EU pieces, but when doing movie characters it really should be closer to the source. I'd rather never get a Boss Nass than to have it suggested that we use a Gungan Infantry or something as a stand-in. The other alternative is to use cardboard cutouts, that would work much better.

I've already got one local player who says he'll refuse to play with Virtual Sets as he doesn't like the idea of seeing a mini on table and not immediately knowing what figure it is. That problem just gets much worse when we start declaring that Boss Nass went on the Subway diet.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:40 am 
Moff Disra
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Wedge772 wrote:
I've already got one local player who says he'll refuse to play with Virtual Sets as he doesn't like the idea of seeing a mini on table and not immediately knowing what figure it is. That problem just gets much worse when we start declaring that Boss Nass went on the Subway diet.

I've heard this before. I'm would not be concerned. There is something for everyone in the V set. I think your local SWM player would have a tough time not playing with a at least one V set figure after seeing them.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:31 am 
Master of the Order
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Wedge772 wrote:
Ugh. As much as I want a Boss Nass piece, I think doing that is a bad idea. The minis should do a reasonable job of representing what the stats say it is, otherwise it gets really out of hand. I don't mind taking additional liberties with EU pieces, but when doing movie characters it really should be closer to the source. I'd rather never get a Boss Nass than to have it suggested that we use a Gungan Infantry or something as a stand-in. The other alternative is to use cardboard cutouts, that would work much better.

I've already got one local player who says he'll refuse to play with Virtual Sets as he doesn't like the idea of seeing a mini on table and not immediately knowing what figure it is. That problem just gets much worse when we start declaring that Boss Nass went on the Subway diet.


Then when those situations arise, you deal with them as a local playgroup. The only time where you would have to 'accept' the V Sets would be at national level events like Regionals or GenCon. At your local level, you can do gentlemen's agreements and such as people already do, and just work around whatever you're not comfortable with.

The simple fact is, there are people like you or your friend who are opposed to the idea, and then there are people like me who are completely gung-ho for it. So, as with anything in life, it's going to be nearly impossible to please everybody. I'm sure the Design Team will do their best to make everybody happy, but honestly, it would be silly for them to cater to every single small request that people have. For every person that doesn't want X character because there's nothing to clearly represent them, there will be a person that REALLY wants X character even if they have to use a round of lump of clay stuck on a blank base to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:34 am 
Moff Disra
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LoboStele wrote:
... even if they have to use a round of lump of clay stuck on a blank base to do it.

What a great idea. [back to making stats for __________] :Ewok:


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:16 pm 
General
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LoboStele wrote:

Then when those situations arise, you deal with them as a local playgroup. The only time where you would have to 'accept' the V Sets would be at national level events like Regionals or GenCon. At your local level, you can do gentlemen's agreements and such as people already do, and just work around whatever you're not comfortable with.


This would only serve to further fragment the player base. I know it's impossible to please everybody, but up to this point everyone has had no choice but to accept the official minis and their stats. People don't like Dejariks, well tough because we got 'em. People don't like Clone Wars, same thing. Since the V Sets are going to rely heavily on player acceptance, I would think that (at least to start with) the V Sets would focus on doing "safe" things. Like new stats for uniques we already have, variants of non-uniques, uniques from non-uniques where the mini is based on a named character, etc. I'm not obsessed with accuracy, but I don't recall ever seeing Boss Nass hit the gym.

Not living in the US, Regionals and GenCon mean nothing to me. However, I do enjoy reading the results and seeing what people are playing. I am looking forward to the V Sets myself, but if they start getting too silly then personally that's what will turn me away. As you said, with a local playgroup we can do whatever we want, and that would include coming up with our own custom stats, or using other player's custom stats. I would prefer to be able to continue our local playgroup with V Sets, but I guess we'll just have to see how it goes. It's a decision every playgroup is going to be faced with, and for the V Sets to be a success there will need to be as many "on board" as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:53 pm 
Mandalore
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Gurneywars wrote:
dalsiandon wrote:
Gurneywars wrote:
dalsiandon wrote:
NickName wrote:
darthbabylon wrote:
I think the game always lacked faction specific ce's for troopers, soldiers, scouts, operatives, ect. I always see people building with fringe, troop types. especially, sith, old rep, new rep, 90% of their troops,soldiers, scouts are worthless.

fringe support, I think should always come with a cost. it will make using certain factions more unique.


Jingoist Rallier
Fringe
Cost (low)
Stats (crap)

Affinity: Any non-Fringe faction.

Jingoist Reinforcements: If the squad contains no characters of a different faction, you may add reinforcements equivalent to 10% of the build total.

Jingoist Reserves: If the squad contains no characters of a different faction, you may add reserves equivalent to 10% of the build total on an init roll of 1.

:D Effectively a faction-pure bonus one you iron out the wording and cost.


This is a nice thought, but I can see part of the resoloution to the problem in adjusting some of hte troop-types in the factions DB is discussing, becasue the Empire and the Sep's are the only group where their basic fodder troops are common in the game. However the SIth have nice troops and have a couple of decent enough troop CE's, but they are not a troop faction, sorry, and the NR is harldy disimilliar than the Rebels, it's a Unqiue powered faction, it was the unique heros that won the war not the front line grunts.


Tell that to those poor troopers that died in the trenches of hoth oh you mean the game. :lol:


Those poor troopers on hoth, uh, I hate to brake it to you but they lost.


They lost the battle but they died to win the war. So many troopers, pilots and heros got away to continue to fight and eventually win the war.



Um...IDK about you...but I live in Colorado Springs CO and this is a military town, two bases the air force academy and Norad all in my back yard, and no family that loses a loved one will consider it a victory. If you die, you lose, and your family loses. Sure the cause may win the war with your sacrifice but that is hardly a comfort.

So the guys on hoth, they lost. Only those who survive truly win, after all they are also the ones who get to write the history for "a deadman tells no tells."

But this is straying off topic. Hence it will be my final post to this line of discussion.

In terms of V-sets I think having as many people on board is very important. I think establishing a tourny rule factor is important becasue it provides some legitamcy to it. With DCI leaving a lot of places that have groups may choose to go back to the rulebook format. Two activations every phase and every round and then the power swap returns or the Kota bomb, is that something that we want as a group?

These non-uniques need to be something that players want and will aid the game. I don't think the process can afford any dud characters in this format. However we are gamers and we are a finky bunch and the saying goes "You can't please everyone" I also think we need to be a bit mroe original, which I why I really like hte idea of the "Rookie" style, then characters like the OR Recruit can fall into that catagory, and the benefit of a rookie is it's cheaper but not as good as it's more experinced counter parts and we have lots of elites and veteran style non-uniques already. THink about for the Empire, stormtrooper rookie, 3 points, 10 hp, +0 attack, 14 defense(heck a 13 might be fine), 10 damage, think about it, thematicly it works, no need to use rodian brutes as a cheap imperial swap or open doors, have the rookie do it, and hten the 5 point storm can actually flex its muscles. And with the stats available it's attack score can only get so high and even with Vader IC they will still nto be as good as a regular stormtrooper and nowhere near an elite. And all the attack bonuses, well a +0 is a +0, that's what an uggie attacks with. Even with opportunist and standing still to gain a +3 thats still only a 7, and if another character combines fire it's still just an 11. However there could be more use than just attacking with someone like that. They could allow CE's like Baron Fels to see life as they support the attacker, all the rebel combine fire CE's could finally get some love with a 3 point Rebel trooper recruit.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:44 pm 
Death Star Designers
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It is a balancing act. Shake things up too much, you risk alienating people. Go to conservative, game gets a bit boring. And there will always be people from both camps complaining. Trust me, just read SWCCG discussions.

Also, way to optimistimic on that Stormtrooper Recruit. It would seriously need stats of a Battle Droid before it should even be considered. Bad idea for that cheap of a trooper for Imps, imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:41 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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I just made a custom for my SAGA campaign that I think might work if done correctly. Basically, I'm using the squad rules in the Clone Wars CG and I got sick of having to move 3 of a piece around to represent 1 squad. So I cut 3 clone troopers (to start with) off their bases and stuck them together on a large size base (actually, I used a square of black foam core board). To save customising for V-Sets, though, you could just temporarily stick three bases together with Blu-tack or tape or something.
I think this could provide an alternative to elite or veteran versions of troopers, something we haven't seen before, while still improving base versions. We already have multiple characters operating as a single unit (Loda, Luke's Landspeeder, Chewy and 3PO) so it's not unheard of.
It may even provide a way around those pesky Squad abilities without handing out Gree's commander effect to everyone. I was thinking something along the lines of:
"Squad: Counts as three characters named X"
Of course, you would need to tailor that to pieces that already have Squad abilities, or give them to the squad itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:27 pm 
Mandalore
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Sithborg wrote:
It is a balancing act. Shake things up too much, you risk alienating people. Go to conservative, game gets a bit boring. And there will always be people from both camps complaining. Trust me, just read SWCCG discussions.

Also, way to optimistimic on that Stormtrooper Recruit. It would seriously need stats of a Battle Droid before it should even be considered. Bad idea for that cheap of a trooper for Imps, imo.


battle droid stats on a stormrecruit, i'd be okay with that. I was just putting out a quick example.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:49 pm 
Dianoga (one eyed monster from the trash compactor in Episode IV)

Cost: 21
HP: 70
Def:14
Atk: 5
Dam: 20

Special Abilities:
-Greater Mobile
-Speed 8
-Rigid
-Spit Poison 10
-Penetration 10

Is this a mini you would want to play with?
What size base? medium, large, or huge


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:56 am 
Mandalore
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 3:56 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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First let me say, love the virtual idea, just really getting into this, but seems like a great idea. The D&D group did a real good job. Has anyone thought on how to tell these pieces apart from normal characters of the same figure? Maybe a color coding system for the base, something actually in the virtual rules set. Maybe like heroclix did with a color system for a characters rank.

White: rookies/recruits/padawans
Black: standard version
Blue: elite/jedi knights
Green: special forces/specialized units(snipers, brutes, masters, etc.)
Red: new version of unique character (a redo of the same character)
Orange: a all new character that looks like the figure (unique or non-unique)

You could either paint the side of the bases or buy the small sticker dots and put it on the bases for easy recognition. Just an idea. Great idea though, hope it keeps the game going.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:18 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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As far as my ideas go. Let me say i like the suggestions above to make popalur races better (jawas, ewoks, tuskens, gungan, etc.) and sub factions (Black sun). I also like the rookies/recruits idea, faction specific CEs, faction pure bonus from CEs or characters and new pilots and pilots CEs.

Just a few ideas i have:
REBELS:
Armored Troop Cart: Using the troop cart. Speed 8. Damage Reduction 10, Protection: Carried characters gain Damage
Reduction 10. Ram: Must move at least 6 squares, target up to 2 adjacent enemy characters at the end of the
move, save 11, succeed: opponent moves the saving character 1 square away from the transport. Failure: target
takes 20 damage and is knocked back up to 2 squares by you. Cost: 20/HP: 50/DEF:18/ATT:4/DM:0

REPUBLIC:
Gungan Fast Cavalry: Speed 10. Galloping Attack, Electropole: melee attacks from this character gain stun:save 11 or
u are considered activated. Atlatl 20. Cost:20/ HP:50/Att:6/DM:20
Gungan Infantry Commander: Grenades 20, Rangefinder, Evade. CE: Gungan Infantry gain Evade and Grenades 20.
Cost: 15/HP:50/DEF:16/ATT:6/DM:10
Gungan Jedi Guardian: Melee, Energy Shield, FP: Force 2, Renewal 1, Lightsaber Sweep, Knight Speed.
Cost:25/HP:60/DEF:19/ATT:8/DM:20 Easy mod.Shieldbearer- minus atlatl add saber.
Naboo and Alderaan upgrades, maybe even Alderaans for the rebels.

OLD REPUBLIC:
Wookie Spearmaster: Using Wookie Trooper. Melee Reach 2, Mighty Swing, Accurate Shot, CE: Wookie Troopers
lose Melee Ability and gain +2 attack when making non-adjacent attacks.
Cost:20/HP:60/DEF:17/ATT:10/DM:20

FRINGE:
Massiff, Loyal Tusken Raider Pet: Speed 8, Melee Attack, Vicious Attack, Body Guard: for Tuskens only.
Adding Tusken Raider to name to benefit from Hetts CE. Cost:11/HP:40/DEF:16/ATT:9/DM:20
Talz Bone Shaman: Using the chieftain figure. Melee Attack, Double Attack, Advantageous Attack, FP:1,Renewal 1
Spirit Staff Throw: Force 1, Replaces attacks: make attack against target as if adjacent, ignoring covering.
CE: Inspired: Talz followers gain Charging Assualt +10
Dathomir Witches: Using the Nightsister figure. Enhanced Empathy: range 12 squares.Stealth, Stable Footing, Animal
Trainer: Choose I creature with savage before the game, chosen character loses savage, gains +4 att/def. and
evade. Force Powers: FP 1, Renewal 1, Summon Swarms: Force 1, replaces attacks, 10 damage and make save,
save 11 or become activated. Characters in hindering take +10 damage. I did not make them melee because
they use bows as well as melee weapons. Cost:18/HP:60/DEF:18/ATT:8/20

Just some ideas of things i would like to see.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:17 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Fringe:
Dark Hellion Brute - Melee Attack and gang+1
Dark Hellion Boss - Recruiter before initiative of first round, chose one non-unique fringe ally. That ally gains Dark Hellion and gang +1, also maybe a CE for Dark hellions
Black Sun Vigo(human)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:40 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 4:20 pm
Posts: 8
Hi!

I have an idea for an Uncommon non-unique:

Gammorean Chieftain
Cost: 20 points?
HP: 70
DEF: 17
ATK: 10
DAM: 20
Special abilities:Melee attack, bloodthirsty, cleave, twin attack
Commander Effect:Gives followers without a force rating, and with Melee attack and 20 Damage, the special abilities Close-quarters Fighting and Bloodthirsty

This is just a general idea, for (in my mind) a cool character, which will help a lot of poor pieces out there...


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for non-unique ideas for Vset figs
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:17 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 81
Aqualish Battlefield Commander cost-17

hp 40
de 17
att +9
da 10

SA
Evade
Advantageous cover

CE
Allied Commanders gain Evade and Advantageous cover


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