billiv15 wrote:
Ok point by point
LoboStele wrote:
I certainly agree with the use of 10 mice for screening and such. But with my build, I can still get up to 8 mice total (2 in the build to start with). I fail to see how that is THAT much of a difference.
With one ug in the build. I have 2 already. Now, let's assume you go with at least one ug as a reinforcement (playing the game with one is not competitive). That means at most you get 7 mice. Not bad, and sure, you outactivate. What are you collecting gambit with? Dodonna? My gambit collector is superior, as he is virtually worthless to the squad once the game begins. That's an advantage in certain situations (which is what competitive play is all about as you know).
LoboStele wrote:
Like, if you don't run Dodonna, how do you deal with a Lord Vader swap squad with a ton of activations, or worse, Ozzel? Granted, it's not the best variant of a swap squad, but it would give you trouble for sure. Your mice can't do anything to block LV with Leap, and you have no way to protect yourself against Master Tactician either, so Vader would almost be guaranteed a kill.
Not concerned in the least, not going to see a competitive version with Ozzel, so not going to worry about playing it. Squad would have to face it twice to even make it matter at all to me.
LoboStele wrote:
Or what about NR with Ganner? They don't care about a Mouse Droid screen either, as they outactivate you and then Ganner just Levitates Mara/Kyle right past it.
That's why there are 10. exactly how are you basing me? You can't base if I'm fully surrounded. You can base Ferus if you want to perhaps, but that's ok with me. In fact I encourage it
And please don't mention grenades as an option. If you waste kyle and ganner throwing a grenade at me, I'm perfectly happy with that as well. Nope, you will have to attack the wall, before you can levitate. And if you do not, kill something, then levitate in one phase, the hole won't be there next phase. Which means no cunning attack for Mara on the Speeder. Not to mention I still have LS deflect, which means Mara isn't the threat she is against other beasts. I also have a ton of hps between the speeder and Ferus. Heck, I'd probably encourage you to make a hole, then levitate and assault, even with cunning. You need 7 mice to make a complete wall, assuming Ferus plays the 8th spot. You can get to 6 if you use Anakin as well. That means I still have 4 more to keep the CE going (keeping Leia safe from Ganner/Mara/Han, as well as to fill in the gaps as mice die.
Further - what if you want double override. For me, I get an R7 and 6 mice. You get an R7, 3 mice and an ug. What about triple? For me, 2 R7s and 3 mice. You get 2 R7s and 1 mouse or one ug.
LoboStele wrote:
Obviously, Yobuck squads you wouldn't use Mouse Droids for your reinforcements, as they're just easy fodder for Yoda to kill, but then you're only looking at about 14-15 activations (depending on your reinforcements, bodyguard, override, etc.). Yobuck will be ahead of you on activations by the 2nd round, and then you'll rarely (if ever) get to use Han's Opportunist at that point.
Dodonna does nothing in this match up anyway. I thought I showed you this in Racine
The Landspeeder is a good matchup against Yoda actually, as it will take Yoda and Dash a long time to each through my hps. Odds are I bring two Twilick Dancers as reinforcements, to BG Juno and prevent swaps and momentum as much as possible, then chase down the three attackers as best I can.
LoboStele wrote:
What about a Pawned Lancer build? Not unusual for those to have 20+ activations, or something like Tim's squad from Chicago with San and the MTB. Gha and Mouse Droids don't help at all with that. Granted, that particular matchup, Dodonna might not help much either (i forget how many activations Tim had), but it would at least be closer, especially once the MTB starts offing pieces.
Juno. How does Dodonna help you here anyway? Tim outactivated any Dodonna squad as it was - and he went first turn at you regardless. Didn't matter about the MTB and evening out, he either won it early (round 1-2) or lost. As for other Lancer builds, Kel Dor would be the reinforcement. They have to run the Lancer first (and pawn second). Further, Juno helps protect you from the first set of strafes, and after that, the LS should easily be in range of taking it out. The speeder has 140hps and Ferus has block. So odds are even a pawned lancer will have to make several successful strafes to get it.
I just think you need to step off the crutch and see that this build works well enough without Dodonna, that you can take advantage of greater options by leaving him out. I can get a T1 in there, can you?
LOL, I'm not trying to stick to the crutch. Like I said before, seems like personal preference. The only convincing reason I see there is the idea of surrounding the LS and forcing opponents to eat through the Mice first, which I could still do for at least 1 round. And to me, the door control issue isn't really a big deal. Careful protection of the Ugos means that 2-3 total is more than enough, leaving me with at least 6 Mice. Add in Anakin and Ferus, and there's your 8 pieces for a wall around the Landspeeder. And using ALL of the mice to guard the Speeder wouldn't bother me in terms of CE boosting. Leia can stick close to Han in the backfield. You just might lose the benefit of Ani's CE on Leia. Not terribly huge, IMO.
All good ideas though, and sure, Gha can get easy gambit too, but most squads will put something in gambit as well (worth more points than Gha, thus a tie-breaker), and just work on picking off your mice as necessary, I think. You'll be forced to expose the mice and possibly let them get picked off, because if you don't, then you'll be leaving yourself open for the opponent to sweep in and go after your big pieces. It's not like it's tough to put other stuff in gambit instead. Plus, in my experience, gambit makes very little differences in most of my games lately. Heck, in a NR matchup, could probably even put the LS in gambit somewhat as bait.
As for the NR matchup, that'd be stupid to go after the LS anyways. You go after Ferus, Han, or Leia first, because you can kill them in 1 round w/ Mara, for the most part. Even with 10 mice, you won't be able to protect all 3 of those pieces. Whatever is unprotected is what the opponent will go after. And with most squads running Dodonna, they'll have easy choices because you'll be all activated and not able to retaliate.
Anyways....
I definitely agree with the LS over the SS though. The key there, I think, is that the LS can kill the SS in 2 activations (40 damage from itself, 50 from Leia's CE), whereas the SS can't even come close in the reverse, having to deal with the extra HP AND Deflect. The loss of Flight hurts a bit, but not enough, IMO. I've always liked the Landspeeder anyways, and I had a blast playing my version of the squad a few weeks ago. After Gray ran the SS so well in Owensboro, I had seriously considered bringing my LS build to Racine. Probably should have. Might've done better than I did with NR.
Looking back at things, I guess the only reason I chose the SS over the LS for last year's GenCon was probably just the mess of Rough Terrain to deal with on the Taris map, I guess. Not really sure.
EDIT: Ooooh, forgot about the fact that the LS doesn't get hurt by the ERC's Ion Gun. That's a definite bonus, IMO.