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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:23 pm 
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Dark_Jedi_21 wrote:
Well Ray, Im sorry. It was never my intention to screw you over. It was my understanding that the first door was overrided open and he wanted to lock the other door and keep the same door open. Which I said he could do by ending his turn adjacent to door one to keep it open and also override door two locked.


That's how we have always played it. Can't second guess stuff like that, next time you might be right and the other person wrong. Just gotta go with the rules as you know them, good or bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:21 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
No, that's incorrect.

Forgetting to end an active override results in a game play error, you do not simply end it and move on. You must back up the game and allow the player with override to end it (and if they choose to, engage a new one). Both players are at fault, and both would get a warning in this situation.

It's also not correct to say that it "ends" when the new one is started. Both happen at the same time. What you are referring to is choosing a new override target, which happens before you "engage it" (no better word to use). The moment you engage it though, the old one is in fact gone.

You may well know this, I'm just making sure everyone is clear on it.


That's all true, and just to emphasize it a visual cue (like a marker) is legitimate reason for a judge to maintain the Override on the same door if it's possible for the Override character's current position without a warning. Non-verbal communication is reasonable, though it's preferable to do both. In the case where it's gone on to a possible illegal game state like it's not even possible from the character's position, generally the warning will be required and the marker is consided the incorrect item (ie... 'the door was open all along').

The base situation is there's no case of "hah! you forgot to say it so it doesn't happen!" just like Evade or Jedi Hunter or whatever other situation one can dream up for non-optional events.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:26 pm 
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It is very confusing - and I have had to make that ruling and explain it to people many times before.

Here's how I do it:

There are 2 things going on: Override and manual door check (opening/closing) (ie - Being adjacent to the door at the end of a turn).

You can do those two things in either order you want, but you cannot split them.

You MUST use override on a single door (declare a door locked or open - which is one action)
-or-
choose not to override anything
every turn. (for each character with override)


Therefore, you can open a door manually, (ie end adjacent to one door) then override a door beyond that open/locked. <choosing manual first then override>

-or-

You can move away from a door (closing it manually) then override a door beyond that open/locked. <choosing override first then manual.>

In both of these examples you are using override as one action, and manual door check as one action - but you can choose the order.


What you CANNOT DO, and this is where the confusion lies, comes with a door overridden LOCKED. There is no way to override a door (open or locked), beyond that door which is currently overridden, in one activation. If you were, then it would be use of override twice, since choosing not to use override is your override action, you cannot then use it again to lock/open another door.



So the ultra short version is this: NOT IF THE FIRST DOOR IS LOCKED


Last edited by TimmerB123 on Tue May 18, 2010 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
That's how we have always played it. Can't second guess stuff like that, next time you might be right and the other person wrong. Just gotta go with the rules as you know them, good or bad.


Yep. Mistakes are going to occur. They've happened at Gencon too with the best judges we've got available and even when they've asked me I've gotten stuff wrong without being able to research due to the constraints of a real-time event. In the face of such errors, I've seen the judges handle them well, applying sound principles of consistancy at least while unfortunately causing a bit of unfairness.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:14 am 
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Hey, guys, I know there was no mal-intent at all. Honestly, this could be good for people to learn for some instance in the long run. Jason, Bryan, we're all great, no sweat. Dennis, stay out of my games! ROFL Interfering jerk . . .

Okay, I think we're all done here! Move along, move along . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:35 am 
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dvader831 wrote:
Hey, guys, I know there was no mal-intent at all. Honestly, this could be good for people to learn for some instance in the long run. Jason, Bryan, we're all great, no sweat. Dennis, stay out of my games! ROFL Interfering jerk . . .

Okay, I think we're all done here! Move along, move along . . .


LOL you turned to me and asked, as I recall!!

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:56 am 
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Shouldn't this be moved to the rules forum? It will help others out with this tricky issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:33 am 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Shouldn't this be moved to the rules forum? It will help others out with this tricky issue.


Yeah I couldn't find that section when I made this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:06 pm 
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Yeah i remember the old thread because it was mine from a match i had vs ILS a long time ago. i think the answer was posted in the first few posts but the debate went on and on and on and on and on...you get the picture. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:49 pm 
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It's too bad the archive has no searching ability at all, even from Google Advanced search as far as I can tell. Can't even see who started it or how many posts in the archive so really if the title isn't clear it's super-tough to find. I remember the thread too, just can't find it. (This is why one of the forum rules was to make good titles, but it's times like this when reseach is needed where it's painfully obvious that it wasn't followed well.)

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:14 am 
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Well, as I said, I was the one who started the thread, so i dontknow if that would help narrow searches.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:53 am 
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Well, the important part is that we know the correct ruling and it's been re-asked at least a half-dozen times since that big discussion on WOTC. So I'm sure there's probably more than 1 thread here on Gamers about it now.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:00 am 
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Ok then I think there are times we have played it wrong as well. So let me get this correct. Door A is overridden LOCKED. At the end of the next turn he cannot go up next to the door and say Door B on the other side is now LOCKED and Door A is no longer overridden and opens for Door B to be LOCKED?????

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:01 am 
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Correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:30 pm 
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StriderRe80 wrote:
Ok then I think there are times we have played it wrong as well. So let me get this correct. Door A is overridden LOCKED. At the end of the next turn he cannot go up next to the door and say Door B on the other side is now LOCKED and Door A is no longer overridden and opens for Door B to be LOCKED?????


Correct.

I'm certain we've played it wrong too, partly because I distinctly remember people arguing with me about how it was supposed to work last time it came up. :P

Or, because many of us have played it wrong for so long in the past, we don't even bother to ask the question about how it's supposed to work, we just play the game and neither player thinks about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:46 am 
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The way I remember the rule is:
You select the new override condition (open, closed, nothing) before the old one can expire.


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 Post subject: Re: Override
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Yup. That pretty much cuts to the chase. :)

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