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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:42 pm 
Master of the Order
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Yeah, you can even use the DCI software to do the pairings, and then just keep track of the 3/2 points on the side somewhere. The pairings might be slightly different in the end, but ultimately it makes very little different.

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:53 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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LoboStele wrote:
Yeah, you can even use the DCI software to do the pairings, and then just keep track of the 3/2 points on the side somewhere. The pairings might be slightly different in the end, but ultimately it makes very little different.



Wouldn't it? If you end a tournament with 2 4-0's at 12 points each, and one guy was paired with someone who had a 2pt victory he gets bumped down when ideally he never should have been. Granted there are times when pair downs do occur, but shouldn't it be kept to a minimal (no more than one) in any given round?

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:03 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
LoboStele wrote:
Yeah, you can even use the DCI software to do the pairings, and then just keep track of the 3/2 points on the side somewhere. The pairings might be slightly different in the end, but ultimately it makes very little different.



Wouldn't it? If you end a tournament with 2 4-0's at 12 points each, and one guy was paired with someone who had a 2pt victory he gets bumped down when ideally he never should have been. Granted there are times when pair downs do occur, but shouldn't it be kept to a minimal (no more than one) in any given round?


The odds of it happening are virtually identical for either pairing system. But for Regionals, we aren't concerned primarily with determining the difference between 2 5-0 players, but between the 4-5 4-1 players depending on how a region plays out. And in that regard, the pairings only matter in the most minor regard in terms of SoS, which isn't used until the third tie breaker anyways. And even still, the worst case scenario is a 3-1 player playing another 3-1 instead of a 2-2 and vice versa for the other guy who was 3-1 and played the 2-2, but would have gotten the 3-1 pairing with the 3/2 system. In the end, it just doesn't make much difference at all. In fact, being paired down under this system isn't a bad thing like it was in the past in many cases, as it ups your odds slightly of playing an "easier" opponent, and hence, gaining that key 3 point victory.

Ideally, all regionals would use the correct 3/2 pairings, but we recognize that is not likely to be possible in all cases in this situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:05 pm 
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Well, if you have two 4-0 players with 12 points each, then they should get paired against each other, rather than one of them getting paired down against a 4-0 with 11 points. But yes, it could be possible that the DCI software would pair the 4-0 11 pointer with one of the 4-0 12 pointers. So, like I said, using the DCI software wouldn't be completely accurate to the 3/2/0 system, but outside of odd situations here or there, the final 1st place person would often be the same.

And since we're doing a cut to top 4 at the Regionals, it should make even less difference, except maybe who gets 4th/5th place (which is always going to be a point of contention no matter what point system you use, IMO).

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Well, I understand that, my error was keeping the example simple. It seems that Aaron was saying that it is irrelevant that each round 4 or 5 people with 3 pts may get paired with someone with 2 pts and it wouldn't matter. I was saying that I think it does.

I know we discussed this a the K-Town Challenge, and the 3 regional judges that were there seemed to agree that it would be best to pair two 3pt players against each other whenever possible, realizing that at some points 1 individual will have to get paired down. We were discussing the fairest way to do this as none of us were sure if Aaron's program would do the pairings.

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:00 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Well, I understand that, my error was keeping the example simple. It seems that Aaron was saying that it is irrelevant that each round 4 or 5 people with 3 pts may get paired with someone with 2 pts and it wouldn't matter. I was saying that I think it does.

I know we discussed this a the K-Town Challenge, and the 3 regional judges that were there seemed to agree that it would be best to pair two 3pt players against each other whenever possible, realizing that at some points 1 individual will have to get paired down. We were discussing the fairest way to do this as none of us were sure if Aaron's program would do the pairings.


Ahh, I get you Brad. Yes, it would be best to pair people with equal scores whenever possible. My Excel file should do that. I have seen some errors in it from time to time this week, so if something screwy happens with it, you may have to manually fix the pairings, which you can do just by putting names in the field instead of letting the macro fill it. Yes, I know an error message pops up, but you could put in the names, and as long as they are identical to what was used in the 'Name' column, then everything should work OK.

I highly recommend that anyone planning to use my Excel file at their Regional take my cell phone number with them, and then they can just call me if necessary to work out any problems on the fly.

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:06 pm 
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How certain are you for being at Chicago? If not, go ahead and pm your cell.

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:19 pm 
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He told unless something crazy happens on Saturday morning he should be there.


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:27 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
How certain are you for being at Chicago? If not, go ahead and pm your cell.


Yeah, it's like at least 95% I'll be there. I'll call Bill or Johnny or somebody if I'm not able to make it.

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 Post subject: Re: Chicago,IL Regional May 1,2010
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:44 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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YAY One day away. I cant wait.
Lets hope all the emails paid off if we dont get a good number I guess it has to be mainly on me.


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