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 Post subject: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:27 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Ok guys, we need to make a list of the custom maps that we think should be legalized for the standard list. Please put your input into this thread. This is not for the "restricted list" for Regional or Championship play - this is for standard skirmish play, and it's the current map list that includes virtually all of WotC produced material. Off hand, I'm not aware of any of the custom maps that we've discussed that wouldn't make this list, but we need an actual positive list that we can discuss and show our support for. I will update the first post with the suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:13 am 
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I am going to post maps that were in the 3 map packs either today or tomorrow. Right off hand my pics would be:

Map Pack 1:

Theed
Jedi Enclave
Dxun

Map Pack 2

Korriban
Dantooine Settlement
AnchorHead
Muatafar(at 150 points)

Map Pack 3

Yavin Ruins(the original)
Star Forge
Docking Bay 93
Mos Eisley town hall

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:54 am 
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Korriban
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Abandoned Casino
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Black Pit Slums
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Anchorhead
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Dxun
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Echobase(completley fogot I ever mede this one :o )
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Felucia
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Kashyyk
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Jedi Enclave
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Last edited by Jedicartographer on Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:14 am 
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Mustafar
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Ugnaught Mines
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Outer Rim Fueling Station
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Dantooine Settlement
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Star Forge
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Taris Lower City
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Theed
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Yavin Ruins
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Yavin Sanctuary
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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:20 am 
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I think thats all of them,except the Mos Eisley maps.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:11 pm 
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For me, Theed is a no-doubt-about-it yes. It's definitely one of my favorite maps to play on.

I don't have super-strong opinions one way or the other about the other maps. I haven't played Star Forge before, but it looks like it could make for a great game (it's also a really cool-looking map--those pits have way more of a Star Wars feel than any other attempt I've seen to make pits on a map).

So those are my votes.


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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:54 pm 
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I am fine with 3/4 of MM maps. The one with the crazy doors is the one I dont like.

As for JC's maps
I dont like

Echobase just an odd map. Third one I really dont like.

Jedi Enclave the movement is just really weird.(this is the second one I really dont like)

Yavin Sanctuary too open( really dont like this one)

Kashyyk I is just a maybe for me there is just something I dont like about that one.



One I really like but is hard to find is smuggers Base.


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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:06 pm 
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I'd like this one to be reviewed as well, it would be nice to have something legal from the upcoming map pack

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AG7 has 2 maps that are really great as well, Kessel, and "Peaceful City". I think it's safe to post kessel. Unfortuntley I don't think I have a copy, so either AG7 can post it, or Boba52 may have one as well i think.

I wouldn't be opposed to putting the smuglers base in a future map pack, but it is going down the list. there are about 12 maps ahead that I am committed to releasing.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:12 pm 
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jonnyb815 wrote:
Jedi Enclave the movement is just really weird.(this is the second one I really dont like)


I'm curious why you don't like it. I designed that map and i've never had any feedback good or bad so i'd like to hear why you think the movement is wierd.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:22 am 
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I don't see why any of them would be left off the list of acceptables
Abandoned Casino right now is one of my favorites. Yavin Sanctuary has been my favorite to play on despite the openness of it since it came out.

@ jonny

smugglers base isn't that hard to find. You just pop over to Holocron and download and then take to friendly neighborhood print shop or have it printed off at cafe press and shipped to you. That is how I got mine as well as Yavin Sabntuary. Thank god that artist made them available that way.

It is the maps that are not available for downloads that are hard to get. Since if your not in the group that was able to or heard about them and buy them then you don't have them. This is true of any of the maps regardless if they are custom or WotC official maps.

Example in case I didn't know about map pack 1 until well after map pack 2 was released. So I don't have it. Map pack 2 I'm feeling really lucky to have gotten. If JC makes map pack 1 available for download I will Download them and take them to local print shop and have the maps printed off. If he doesn't then I won't have them and will be SOL in getting them.

Another Example is WotC maps that were handed out as league kits. If your venue didn't run DCI you didn't get the league kits at least in my area. Luckily we began to run DCI after dreamblade was released and our group was able to get the maps.(example the fixed maps from RS ultimate missions and Taris)

As far as mapmaker is concerned he is selling his on his own site. How many does he have? I don't know. Will he retire the maps after he sells them all? I don't know. Will he make them available for download when he feels he sold all he can? again don't know. I have already bought mine, but what happens to the guy on the budget who finally comes up with the extra money to find out he missed out?

At this point if something happens and my collection is destroyed the maps are the thing that I know I will never be able to replace unless they were a down loadable one.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:25 am 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
jonnyb815 wrote:
Jedi Enclave the movement is just really weird.(this is the second one I really dont like)


I'm curious why you don't like it. I designed that map and i've never had any feedback good or bad so i'd like to hear why you think the movement is wierd.



lol I was waiting for this :)

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:29 am 
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Gurneywars wrote:
I don't see why any of them would be left off the list of acceptables
Abandoned Casino right now is one of my favorites. Yavin Sanctuary has been my favorite to play on despite the openness of it since it came out.

@ jonny

smugglers base isn't that hard to find. You just pop over to Holocron and download and then take to friendly neighborhood print shop or have it printed off at cafe press and shipped to you. That is how I got mine as well as Yavin Sabntuary. Thank god that artist made them available that way.

It is the maps that are not available for downloads that are hard to get. Since if your not in the group that was able to or heard about them and buy them then you don't have them. This is true of any of the maps regardless if they are custom or WotC official maps.

Example in case I didn't know about map pack 1 until well after map pack 2 was released. So I don't have it. Map pack 2 I'm feeling really lucky to have gotten. If JC makes map pack 1 available for download I will Download them and take them to local print shop and have the maps printed off. If he doesn't then I won't have them and will be SOL in getting them.

Another Example is WotC maps that were handed out as league kits. If your venue didn't run DCI you didn't get the league kits at least in my area. Luckily we began to run DCI after dreamblade was released and our group was able to get the maps.(example the fixed maps from RS ultimate missions and Taris)

As far as mapmaker is concerned he is selling his on his own site. How many does he have? I don't know. Will he retire the maps after he sells them all? I don't know. Will he make them available for download when he feels he sold all he can? again don't know. I have already bought mine, but what happens to the guy on the budget who finally comes up with the extra money to find out he missed out?

At this point if something happens and my collection is destroyed the maps are the thing that I know I will never be able to replace unless they were a down loadable one.


GW, Map pack1 is avaialble for free download at the holocron. just look in my folder! I am pretty determined to at least re-release the Theed map in the not too distant future.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:11 am 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
jonnyb815 wrote:
Jedi Enclave the movement is just really weird.(this is the second one I really dont like)


I'm curious why you don't like it. I designed that map and i've never had any feedback good or bad so i'd like to hear why you think the movement is wierd.


We played on it a few times and it kinda always got the same reaction from the casual crowd that Jonny had to it.

The right start was unpopular because there was no way into that central building that gets you through it. So the whole building kind of went unused. And left gets to the central doors quicker and positions there, so none of the fight moves to the left half of the map. After a few games with this "vertical" fight in the central hallway whenever this map gets pulled from the stack someone recognizes that they didn't really like it and flips it over.

Pretty anecdotal and the group admittedly didn't give it a lot of chances but I guess knowing that it made a bad first impression is valuable in its own way...

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:34 am 
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Enclave is OK, but I haven't really put that many games into it. I find that, as Nickname pointed out, the games tend to follow the exact same path almost every time, and the left side typically has a slight advantage. The map is relatively fun though I think. Is it worthy of the Standard list? I wouldn't be sold on that quite yet, since there are so many other great ones. I think the hardest part about that particular map is that it is sort of one-dimensional, in that there's only 1 option for either side really. The right side has to either commit to going all on the top or bottom, or take the chance of splitting the forces up. The left side has a tad bit more freedom, but typically the games on this map still devolve to mobiling around corners and taking long shots at each other. There is some fun to be had if the right side can get up against the wall on the left side of gambit, thereby forcing the left side player to look for narrow angles and get closer to the doors. That's the only way I've been able to win from the right on this map.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:44 am 
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sounds like it plays how i wanted it to, but what i invisioned probably isn't the much fun. The idea was to bring both squads in close around gambit but there may be too much space which sets up a stalemate.

I think i should have put doors into the the central room on the top and bottom in the right building so that right would advance through there. That might have taken away from the linear style of play a bit. I just didn't want the right getting to gambit much faster than the left.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:12 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
sounds like it plays how i wanted it to, but what i invisioned probably isn't the much fun. The idea was to bring both squads in close around gambit but there may be too much space which sets up a stalemate.

I think i should have put doors into the the central room on the top and bottom in the right building so that right would advance through there. That might have taken away from the linear style of play a bit. I just didn't want the right getting to gambit much faster than the left.


I'll be honest, this is probably my personal favortine out of MP1, but it's for non gameplay reasons. And honestly the game has changed a bit since the maps on MP1 we're designed, so I think a couple of them may be questionable still.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:20 pm 
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I would just like to remind people that this is the Standard list, which is the middle list, not the "Open" list we are talking about here. Not all custom maps should be on the Standard list. If it doesn't make a decent game out of normal squads, then it goes into "Open" not standard.

Just a reminder of what's currently on each list:
Map Open Standard Restricted
Clone Strike starter Grand Plaza map X X X
Rebel Storm Ultimate Missions Cloud City map
(updated Organized Play version only) X X X
Revenge of the Sith Ultimate Missions Throne Room map
(AKA Star Wars Miniatures 2007 starter Imperial Base map) X X X
Attack on Endor Commander's Office map X X X
Attack on Endor Hall of Judgment map X X X
Attack on Endor Rancor Pen map X X X
Rebel Storm Ultimate Missions Mos Eisley map (updated Organized Play version only) X X
Clone Strike Ultimate Missions Nightclub map
(treat windows as walls, high ledges as on the same level with the streets) X X
Revenge of the Sith starter Power Regulation Chamber map X X
Rebel Storm starter Tractor Beam Reactor Coupling map X X
The Clone Wars starter Freight Transit Station map X X
The Clone Wars Map Pack Rattatak Arena map X X
Clone Wars Battles Muunilinst Commerce Plaza map X
Knights of the Old Republic poster Taris Undercity map X
Battle of Hoth Echo Base Outpost map X
Attack on Endor Bunker map (brown forest lines are ignored) X
Clone Strike Ultimate Missions Geonosis Arena Pit map X
Revenge of the Sith Ultimate Missions Mustafar Plateau map X
The Clone Wars starter Christophsis map X
Clone Wars Battles Christophsis (Intact) map X
Star Wars Miniatures 2007 starter Korriban map X
Legacy of the Force Ossus Landing Platform map X
The Clone Wars Map Pack Nelvaan Snow Fields map X
The Clone Wars Map Pack Teth Courtyard map X
The Clone Wars Map Pack Crystal Caves of Ilum X
The Clone War Map Pack Coruscant Streets Map X
The Clone Wars Map Pack Teth Monastery map X
AT-AT Imperial Walker Deflector Shield Generator map
AT-AT Imperial Walker Hoth Plateau map

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:41 pm 
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I'll be honest, and I don't mean this to sound smug, I just can't think of any one of our maps I wouldn't put on the Standard list. noe of them suck so bad you can't have a decent game, at their worst they'll be dull games, but balanced games.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Jedicartographer wrote:
I'll be honest, and I don't mean this to sound smug, I just can't think of any one of our maps I wouldn't put on the Standard list. noe of them suck so bad you can't have a decent game, at their worst they'll be dull games, but balanced games.


Well, that's good to keep in mind, but remember, look at some of the maps that are on the open list: Echo Base Outpost, Muunilist Commerce Plaza, Taris, etc. So, there are maps on there that were often played last year.

Just because you can have a decent game on it, doesn't mean it's one you want to use for tournaments all the time. Remember, the Standard list is what most venues would be encouraged to use for normal tournaments. I wouldn't necessarily oppose a map like Jedi Enclave on the Standard list, but honestly, out of all the Map Pack maps, it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.

Another example, is Kashyyyk. It's a cool map, but personally, I find it tough to play on, and would probably not recommend it for the Standard list.

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 Post subject: Re: Standard Map List Change Discussion - Custom Maps
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:52 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
sounds like it plays how i wanted it to, but what i invisioned probably isn't the much fun. The idea was to bring both squads in close around gambit but there may be too much space which sets up a stalemate.

I think i should have put doors into the the central room on the top and bottom in the right building so that right would advance through there. That might have taken away from the linear style of play a bit. I just didn't want the right getting to gambit much faster than the left.


In some ways it seems like it should be reminiscent of the WotC Jedi Temple map with that split down the middle, but the particulars of the layout means one side reaches the split faster and with much more safety even if it's offset from Gambit and so it never generates that feeling there's motion and activity around the central barrier that the WotC map does. It's interesting that such subtlety can be the difference between a fan favorite and one that gets something of a cold shoulder.

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