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 Post subject: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:08 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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(Note to mods: if this belongs in general instead of "Future of the Game," please feel free to relocate the thread.)

I've been a proponent of more low-cost options so that mice/ugnaughts aren't automatic inclusions as filler for every squad, but I haven't heard many people chime in (pro or con) on the idea. This is a new thread so it doesn't hijack Dean's "last call" thread.

I've listed some low-cost ideas I've mentioned. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on whether more low-cost options are needed, opinions on what I've posted, as well as your own ideas. If the V-set were to have two pieces that are cost 4 or less, what would you want them to be?

THOUGHTS:
==
4-point cost non-melee versions of Uggie Demo and Mouse Droid. (Call them Squib Demolitionist and Human Courier?)
==

Door Control Panel
Cost: 2, HP: 10, Def: 12, Atk: -, Dmg: -.
SA:
Emplacement
Very Small: Does not block movement or provide cover. Enemies may choose to not count this character as the nearest enemy.
Wall Panel: Not subject to Commander Effects and may not attack or use abilities that replace attacks. Any character may end its movement on this character to immediately defeat this character.
Door Controls: Character must be placed adjacent to a door at the start of the skirmish, and no more than one character with the same name as this character may be adjacent to the same door. If this character is not activated, an ally with line of sight to this character may, at the end of the ally's turn, designate a door adjacent to this character as open or closed; it remains open or closed until the end of this character's next turn, or until this special ability is used again; this character is considered activated, and does not count as one of your activations this turn. (Using this ability to open or close doors is equivalent to using the Override ability for the designated door.)

Glossary text: If this character is not able to be placed adjacent to a door at the beginning of the skirmish, then it is immediately defeated and your opponent scores the victory points.

(Updates: corrected so that it cannot serve as a blocker and can be defeated without spending an activation. Added Lobostele's wording to prevent activation abuse. Split the text into 3 SA's so it's hopefully a little easier to read.)
===
3 or 4-point "mini-Mas" that only extends the CE of one adjacent commander (Call it Communications Technician?)

===
3 point shooter with a penalty of some sort - perhaps a slow mover:

Kitonak Musician
Cost: 3, Defense: 12, Attack: 1, Damage: 10
SA:
Speed 4

===

My vote for 2 low-cost pieces would be the 2-point Door Control Panel and 4-point Human Courier.


Last edited by FlyingArrow on Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:43 am 
Droid Army Commander
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Here's one idea i really think should be implemented in a Virtual set.

Chazrach
Yuuzhan Vong
3 pts
HP: 10
Attack: 4
Def: 13
Damage: 10

SA:
Swarm +1

These miniatures would be on a small base.

An interesting idea for latter synergy with these guys would be a Rakamat. It would have something simialr to tow cable, but would only allow all Chazrach adjacent to it to move with it. It would have a negative effect on the Chazrach if it died, since the warbeast was killed, the Chazrach would end up killing anything close by, even each other, so maybe Savage would be granted upon the Rakamat's death to all Chazrach for the rest of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:52 am 
Master of the Order
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Some good ideas there. I agree with you that more options for low cost filler would be nice.

In particular, I like the door control panel. It should probably be defeated if Satchel Charge or Shatter Beam are used on the door it is controlling, otherwise seems pretty powerful for 2 points.

More cheap combine fire pieces would be cool. I'd like to see that mechanic get used more often.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:14 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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swinefeld wrote:
In particular, I like the door control panel. It should probably be defeated if Satchel Charge or Shatter Beam are used on the door it is controlling, otherwise seems pretty powerful for 2 points.


If the adjacent door(s) are destroyed, it becomes nothing more than an extra activation that does nothing, and that can easily be killed at any time.


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:25 am 
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I also like the door control panel as well. I also think the 'mini-Mas' idea has some merit to it. Perhaps for boosting CEs in some of the minor factions. But maybe something around the 7-8 point range, so that it wouldn't be an auto-include in every squad, and running more than 1 or 2 of them would be cost-prohibitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:49 am 
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FlyingArrow wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
In particular, I like the door control panel. It should probably be defeated if Satchel Charge or Shatter Beam are used on the door it is controlling, otherwise seems pretty powerful for 2 points.


If the adjacent door(s) are destroyed, it becomes nothing more than an extra activation that does nothing, and that can easily be killed at any time.


Yes, I understand that, but having it persist as an activation after the door is blown, to me, should cost more than 2 points.
10 points for 5 of those things is a bargain at that rate, as they would be just as, if not more annoying than mice/uggs as blockers against non-accurate shooters. Of course, that might be a good thing :P

But really, I could see them getting abused to get activation counts way up. I don't know... I still love the idea!

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:12 pm 
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I do think we need a 2 point piece. BUT - (and this is important) - make it a unique, so people can't just fill up their squads with it. Make it fringe, but otherwise total crap, maybe even not able to benefit from commander effects (but not savage!) That way you can't boost it, it's just an activation.

Salacious crumb?


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:15 pm 
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I agree that if it's a 2 point piece, it ought to be Unique, solely for the purpose of filling out a squad's last 2 points. Something like Salacious would be great....IF WOTC had given us a piece that would be good for a custom of it. As far as Vsets go, I think it'll be tough to do Salacious Crumb, as we really don't have a good piece to use as a substitute.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Food for thought: if it's unique, it could be used to trigger the various Impulsive abilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:29 pm 
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LoboStele wrote:
I agree that if it's a 2 point piece, it ought to be Unique, solely for the purpose of filling out a squad's last 2 points. Something like Salacious would be great....IF WOTC had given us a piece that would be good for a custom of it. As far as Vsets go, I think it'll be tough to do Salacious Crumb, as we really don't have a good piece to use as a substitute.


Unless you want to cut it off the original Jabba.

Or it could be an alternate wicket. (Young wicket) No traps, melee, less defence, 0 damage, no stealth.


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:30 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Food for thought: if it's unique, it could be used to trigger the various Impulsive abilities.

Oh - good point!

How about a non-unique with a special ability that allowed only 1 per squad


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Are there any characters that are fiercely anti-social or territorial?

Hehe, how about this:

Territorial (Only one of this character may be in play during a skirmish for either player. At the beginning of the skirmish, if both squads include this character, players roll a die and whoever gets the lower number, their character is immediately defeated.)

With something like that, you could still give it some semi-decent stats (well, say, stats equivalent of a 3-4 point piece).

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:38 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Food for thought: if it's unique, it could be used to trigger the various Impulsive abilities.


No offense, but I don't think that should factor into the idea of a 2 point unique. Some of those Impulsive abilities are tough enough to pull off (Sweep, Shot). In the case of Impulsive Jedi Hunter, there's no guarantee it will be of any good. The only potential abuse I see is with Bomo's Impulsive Reprisal. Even Quinlan's Impulsive Momentum is a moot point with General Skywalker being so popular. Sure, it would be a cheaper way to trigger those SAs, but I don't see that as a bad thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Lord Hoth's Impulsive Twin Attack.

Granted, it's really only a concern if someone combines it with an MTB build. The 2 point character is going to have such lousy stats otherwise, that opponent's will just flat-out ignore it 99% of the time if they're trying to not trigger an Impulsive ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:50 pm 
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LoboStele wrote:
Lord Hoth's Impulsive Twin Attack.

Granted, it's really only a concern if someone combines it with an MTB build. The 2 point character is going to have such lousy stats otherwise, that opponent's will just flat-out ignore it 99% of the time if they're trying to not trigger an Impulsive ability.


LOL, of course I forget about the best Impulsive ability (up there with Reprisal). If I were the opponent, I would ignore the 2 point unique. If you are running the 2 pointer, you are going to have to have a way to kill it yourself. So either MTB or perhaps the Dejarik with Painful Screech. Those are probably the 2 best options for such an idea. And again, that +10 attack for Hoth is a downer :P.


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:57 pm 
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I think 2 pt pieces are just a bad idea. Not worth trying to figure it out. The Mice are bad enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
I think 2 pt pieces are just a bad idea. Not worth trying to figure it out. The Mice are bad enough.

If a 2 point unique piece is okay, then why not a 1 point unique?

I think the 3 point scrubs are just fine. 6 point C3PO and 8 point Wicket are costed well.


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:23 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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swinefeld wrote:
Yes, I understand that, but having it persist as an activation after the door is blown, to me, should cost more than 2 points.
10 points for 5 of those things is a bargain at that rate, as they would be just as, if not more annoying than mice/uggs as blockers against non-accurate shooters. Of course, that might be a good thing :P

But really, I could see them getting abused to get activation counts way up. I don't know... I still love the idea!


You're right about the blocking. I meant to take care of that by having it not provide cover, but it also needs wording so that it doesn't prevent enemies from targeting figures farther away. I'll go back and change it, but it might sound awkward.

Also note that the way I wrote it, the piece is either an activation or used for adjacent override, but not both in the same round.


Last edited by FlyingArrow on Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Engineer wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
I think 2 pt pieces are just a bad idea. Not worth trying to figure it out. The Mice are bad enough.

If a 2 point unique piece is okay, then why not a 1 point unique?

I think the 3 point scrubs are just fine. 6 point C3PO and 8 point Wicket are costed well.


True. The thought here is squeezing out an activation. So there probably wouldn't be any difference between a 1 point unique or 2 point unique. The only inherent difference would be cost. Of course I would still lean towards allowing a 2 point unique over a 1 point unique. There are so many 199 squads out there. Not as much the case with 198. The same goes for the 150 game.


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 Post subject: Re: Low-Cost Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:43 pm 
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FlyingArrow wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Yes, I understand that, but having it persist as an activation after the door is blown, to me, should cost more than 2 points.
10 points for 5 of those things is a bargain at that rate, as they would be just as, if not more annoying than mice/uggs as blockers against non-accurate shooters. Of course, that might be a good thing :P

But really, I could see them getting abused to get activation counts way up. I don't know... I still love the idea!


You're right about the blocking. I meant to take care of that by having it not provide cover, but it also needs wording so that it doesn't prevent enemies from targeting figures farther away. I'll go back and change it, but it might sound awkward.

Also note that the way I wrote it, the piece is either an activation or used for adjacent override, but not both in the same round.


Ah, gotcha. If you can blow the door and then shoot past it at something else, then you can ignore it unless you need to take it out to lower opposing activations. "Does not count as the nearest enemy" or something along those lines.

Then as others have also mentioned, something to limit how many you can have in a squad to prevent activation abuse and it could be a very useful piece to field without breaking things. :)

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