THE GUNGAN'S SUNDAY RPG

billiv15 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:11 am

Ok, looks like we need a new GM. Anyone want to take over, or should we start over. Anyone want to volunteer to GM?

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

I am sorry that I controlled the game and made the game unplayable. I though that there needed to be more creative ideas going on and I was really trying to bring them out before the bomb happened. I messed up but the problem is a lot deeper than RPGing. I am sorry for what has happen not just with last night. The overall trying to undermined the group for no real reason than to be mean.

We play the rpg to have fun and hangout. The fighting over little rules is useless. I need to remember and believe that having fun can happen.

I need to not think that people are after me all the time and just believe people are my friends. Whenever I start trusting people I get back tabbed or they pass away. so I feel the need to defend myself. I lost what having fun really means. I have really not had fun in about anything for the last six years. I have monements but most the time feel that I have to protect myself from getting made fun of or cheated on.
This has nothing to do with you guys it has to do with me not trusting people/forgetting what having fun really means.
This is not me trying to make you feel sorry for me I am just trying to tell you where the problem starts from.

I understand odds are that I will not be the GM anymore that is fine. I really had fun making the campaign stories and building the characters. I really felt that the GM part was a job.

I really think if I got another shot it could work but not as the GM read below. I believe that the big problem was that I just wasnt understanding who the RPG characters really were.I was not letting the group build their characters into what they wanted. I was turning the rpg into a battle and not a challenge that in the end should be fun. Rules are just rules if something is not right its not the end of the world. Moving the story along and having fun is the key to a great rpg not the rules. I forgot that the past few weeks ok maybe from day one.

Again I was the problem not you guys I am sorry for that.

Ok I am not really good at the RPG part would anyone be up for me making the storyline/making the characters still being on the call just to listen so the start line is going in the right direction but not doing the rules or acting parts. I can listen and not speak all the time. I have did it in deans campaign when I was the sniper. Well thats just an idea that was thrown out there.

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

After rethinking about it I would like to still GM if anyone wants to play?

I need to explain the rule not just read from the book and do it with a good tone not sounding mad to the person when I am making a rule.
If you will let me GM again I am willing to try and act civil when I am making a ruling and overall GMing.

I am not really good at the non combat part would anyone want to help me with that part?

I really believe that I can run the battles if I have an open mind to ideas going into the battles. From now on unless the idea is not crazy it should work in some way. I might have to limit a few ideas but for the most part a lot of them will fly.
The ideas you guys had vs the birds will work for an example now
I want you guys to think outside the box and just with the rules. The biggest thing I forgot is that the book is just a guide and this is just a game.

I really want to show to you guys that I can do this and not just speak. In the end you guys have the last say.

I am sorry again for undermining everyone and trying to make the campaign a you vs me battle.

First think though is we need to update the house rules and anything on there that is not a house rule during the session will just not be allowed unless its an oversight. I know every GM has different house rules but for the most part we as a group have a good list of house rules that should be written down somewhere no matter who the GM is.

-can use force points for damage
-cant use force points if its not your turn

Side note if I Cant GM anymore my idea in the other post is still open if you guys would like to do that. I would like the storyline not to end even if I am not the GM so anyway we can save the game and characters I am open to.

obikenobi1 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:40 pm

I'd be willing to pay still. I think your doing a fine job jonny, and the battles are interesting and challenging. A small suggestion I would make is to add skill challenges to the game, so that people who are not fighters have something to contribute. The game doesn't have to be fighting 24/7. If you want that, just play star wars miniatures on Vassal. RPG is all about letting people be their characters, be imaginative, and challenge everyone to think creatively while occasionally having combat. My friend did this very well when I played D&D. Combat shouldn't always be thrown at the party. In campaigns I've played before, the party can choose what to do, rather than be forced to just do combat. There are alternatives to fighting! :obi:

A cool thing that a GM can do is introduce NPC's that become characters in themselves and can aid or hinder the party. I've played games where you have to be careful about just killing NPC's because you think they might be dangerous. Thats not how it works in the real world. Dialogue is neccesary and NPC's can become friends or foes. If the party just randomly attacks every NPC they encounter, there had better be severe consequences that will hurt the party latter down the line, such as loss of potential experience, death by impossible to beat NPC's, or imprisonment. I played D&D one time and challenged a drunk dwarf in a tavern to a fight once because I thought his attitude needed adjusting. 2 hits latter, i was dead. The same thing happens in the real world. You don't just walk around town killing people randomly. The authorities will get you in trouble, and there is nothing you can do about it, unless you really want to rebel against society, which is just asking for trouble. Sometimes its best to talk your way out of situations. You can set up DC's in advance for skill checks such as persuasion and deception so that people can get out of situations that might turn really bad. Another thing that you can do is have NPC's that become ally's to the party by either giving helpful information or assisting in combat. These characters are reoccurring and become friends that can be trusted. All this does take some effort to set up, but its very worth it since it makes the RPG experience memorable and challenging and not just battle after battle after battle. Even battles can allow for creativity. Put different objects in the field that will either hinder or help the party. I GM'd once and put some large flat durasteel panels on the floor, because I knew that the one Jedi of the group could use the force and move the panel in front of the group like a shield. I didn't tell the person to do that, but I made the environment adaptable to each character to allow them to come up with different tactics. Just have in mind what the things you put in the field can do and how people in the party can use them. You will be amazed at how creative people can be and if they do something that makes sense, don't impede it because you didn't think that could happen or you didn't aticipate it. Reward creativity. Obviously if they are going overboard, make the DC's hard to accomplish. DC's can be made on the fly for any situation. As the GM you just need to know what skill is required for it.

I hope we continue this campaign cause I've been having fun playing it so far. The unknown regions makes for some interesting storylines. Keep up the good work Jonny!

obikenobi1 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:45 pm

Jonny, if you decide to not GM, I might be willing to GM latter, but right now is just not a good time. I have graduation coming up and I will be swamped with studying for the next month and a half. In the middle of May is the earliest I can do GM'ing. I can continue the current story if people want, or I can create a new campaign. I'd probably prefer making a new campaign since I have no clue what you had planned for the story in the campaign we are running right now.

Grand Moff Boris · **Joined:** Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:08 pm **Posts:** 8395

Jonny, I have only played one time and that is because I have a lot of personal issues that make it difficult to be on the computer on a Sunday night these days. But I did notice that you seemed to be very rigid and methodical in your storytelling. The game is for the players, all you can do is create the environment. Don't try to force them to do what you want, when you want. If we all decide to get on the ship and fly away rather than follow your lead, you need to be able to run with that. I don't know what happened that makes you want to give up the game but you just need to remember that in an RPG your players have free will and the ability to think for themselves, just like in real life. It's up to you to determine how their actions affect what happens in the game, not the other way around.

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

Guys I messed up will you guys forgive for Sunday night. To be honest I dont even know if we are even friends anymore for what happened.

I have a new GM that will take over the storyline and I would build the characters/help with the storyline but he would take over the battles and RPG parts. I would just be in the background listening.

If you guys are up for this I will tell Gunnar. He knows all about star wars, loves hanging out with others,knows the basic rules but thats about it,and I really think the characters will grow with him. Overall he is a great guy and the group will have a lot of fun. He is the one that helped me build the storylines when we started playing.

I know Matt,Bill,Brad have met him before.

billiv15 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:29 pm

If Gunner wants to do it, I'm fine with that arrangement. But you are welcome to speak while we are playing. Just don't use the words "No!" so liberally against your players

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

so last time everyone that played got 4,000 xp

so everyone that played last night that is at level 8 should be at 32,000 not including bonus xp.
Chase should be at 27,000 that includes bonus xp
Obi is at 28,000
Brian is at 21,000
Boris is at 21,000

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

Edit
Plans have changed knowing that Brad is still playing. If anyone wants to still play they can join if they want but the overall numbers look a lot better than they did before.

We are looking at adding 1-2 more players so if anyone wants to play PM me. I will give Gunnar the info.
Gunnar will have a screenname and all that so you can PM but right now just PM me.

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

We will be meeting next sunday around 8
If you have quit because of what happened please PM or post in this thread.
I understand what happened was uncalled for and should of never happened. I really sorry again for how I acted. I have found a new GM to help me out so the storyline will flow better and that the group over all has fun.

The goal of the rpg going forward is having fun and hanging out. If we have not met that goal at the end of each night Gunnar and I have not done your jobs as GMs.

I am not the GM anymore just helping Gunnar out when needed.

This is the list of the players that are still playing
Bill
Dean
Matt
Obi
Chase
Brian

I dont know about Walter and Trevor?

The_Celestial_Warrior · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am **Posts:** 5343

Only girls stay pissed off for more than a day

You stress too much

I'm cool with playing under you or Gunnar, as my actions weren't the most diplomatic either.

My only concern would be the modifications you made that actually allowed the PC's to do something that the rules don't allow that Gunnar may not agree with: Blaster and Blade with a Lightsaber and the alteration you made to B&BII for me for example. I'm sure there are more from others...

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

Gunnar and I have talked about that the house rules they are staying the same(even the custom ideas). I think most of them outside of Bill and Brad custom ideas are in the house rule thread.

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

Brad this is how I see it working

so this is how i read the rules you can conceal an item as a standard (swift for you). This part can be done pre battle. But if you want to try and re conceal a weapon it will be a swift.Then when you draw the weapon opposing enemies can try and make a perception check vs you as a reaction(your stealth check). The enemies are making a perception check to see if they can see the concealed weapon/when its being drawn.

To draw a concealed weapon is a move action(free action for you). Size mods will still count to the check. You can take 10 on this check if you want(FU talent that you have). If you have total concealment when your drawing your weapon there is no check.While your cloaked you can draw your weapon before your turn (free actions can be done whenever) and there will be no check. I hope this makes more sense.

Equipment sizes are on SV38 and conceal item is on core 72
-5 for small 5+kg
+0 for tiny 2-5kg
+5 for Diminutive(this is a pistol) 1-2 kg
+10 for Fine(anything less than 1kg)

@walter
Counter punch
1. When an enemy attacks you can make a aoo vs that enemy as a reaction to the attack when your FD.
2. IF your FD and move pass someone giving up an aoo you can attack them as a reaction to the aoo attack.
3. If you attack them and they some how can make a attack as a reaction.If your fighting defensive and have not made a aoo during the round you could use counter punch to attack back.

The key is that they have to attack you first and your fighting defensive.YOU CAN ONLY MAKE ONE AOO PER ROUND unless you have combat reflexes. Melee defensive does not count as Fighting Defensive.

Are there any other talents you guys have questions about?
If you have a question about a talent and you think about it before your turn PM me or Gunnar before hand so the problem can be dealt with so we dont waste any playing time.

The_Celestial_Warrior · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am **Posts:** 5343

jonnyb815 wrote:

Brad this is how I see it working

so this is how i read the rules you can conceal an item as a standard (swift for you). This part can be done pre battle. But if you want to try and re conceal a weapon it will be a swift.Then when you draw the weapon opposing enemies can try and make a perception check vs you as a reaction(your stealth check). The enemies are making a perception check to see if they can see the concealed weapon/when its being drawn.

To draw a concealed weapon is a move action(free action for you). Size mods will still count to the check. You can take 10 on this check if you want(FU talent that you have).
Equipment sizes are on SV38 and conceal item is on core 72
-5 for small 5+kg
+0 for tiny 2-5kg
+5 for Diminutive(this is a pistol) 1-2 kg
+10 for Fine(anything less than 1kg)

Lol, so pretty much what I've been saying and we've been doing all along.

So to keep it simple I will just take the 10 on all rolls made in combat:

First check of the encounter: Heavy Blaster 33
Main Lightsaber 33
Secondary Lightsaber 38

All remaining checks in that encounter: Heavy Blaster 23
Main Lightsaber 23
Secondary Lightsaber 28

Of course, like you said, there's the trick with making Cloak a useable Force Power.

jonnyb815 wrote:

If you have total concealment when your drawing your weapon there is no check.While your cloaked you can draw your weapon before your turn (free actions can be done whenever) and there will be no check. I hope this makes more sense.

Drawing? or concealing? This one changed.

I'm still not a fan of doing this to the same guy more than once, but I suppose the big drop in DC makes up for that, so that only the really stupid (and thus lower Perception) NPC's should fall for it again.

TreebeardTheEnt · **Posted:** Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:40 pm

jonnyb815 wrote:

@walter
Counter punch
1. When an enemy attacks you can make a aoo vs that enemy as a reaction to the attack when your FD.
2. IF your FD and move pass someone giving up an aoo you can attack them as a reaction to the aoo attack.
3. If you attack them and they some how can make a attack as a reaction.If your fighting defensive and have not made a aoo during the round you could use counter punch to attack back.

The key is that they have to attack you first and your fighting defensive.YOU CAN ONLY MAKE ONE AOO PER ROUND unless you have combat reflexes. Melee defensive does not count as Fighting Defensive.

Jonny the Bold Italicized is a reversal of what you told me in PM. This is one of the biggest issues you have as a GM saying one thing one time, and then changing it later. This change, intentional or unintentional, is very aggravating because I asked you about this weeks ago when I was planing out the character, and now that I have take the talent (4 levels, and six weeks later) you are changing the rules so that the talent becomes worthless to me.

Why would a character that has Melee Defense ever use Fighting Defensavely when they are going to attack? Taking a -5 atk to get a +2 def when you can take a -2 atk for a +2 defense makes no sense. And why do you no longer consider Melee Defense a form of Fighting Defensavely? If you want to have the argument again we can, but I am about done with the back and forth stang. Also, if you are no longer the GM why are you changing the rules?

The_Celestial_Warrior · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am **Posts:** 5343

I went and took a look at it.

Seems like everyone can Fight Defensively.

Melee Defense is the feat (for melee characters) that lets you do it better.

TreebeardTheEnt · **Posted:** Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:16 pm

Right, so if a character took a feat to be able to defend themselves better why would they no longer be considered fighting defensively? It makes no sense.

billiv15 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:20 pm

Doesn't fighting defensively require not attacking?

Sorry, I don't really know the feats you are all talking about. Walter, can you make a list of the exact names of each thing you are trying to combine, so I can actually make an educated suggestion?

We as a group are going to be responsible together with the GMs to make these decisions, so make a quick list, and give me what you are trying to do. I don't need/want your entire PM conversation with Jonny. I want what the rules allow, what you are trying to combine, and the logical reasons for it.

Thanks,
Bill

jonnyb815 · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am **Posts:** 1959

TreebeardTheEnt wrote:

jonnyb815 wrote:

@walter
Counter punch
1. When an enemy attacks you can make a aoo vs that enemy as a reaction to the attack when your FD.
2. IF your FD and move pass someone giving up an aoo you can attack them as a reaction to the aoo attack.
3. If you attack them and they some how can make a attack as a reaction.If your fighting defensive and have not made a aoo during the round you could use counter punch to attack back.

The key is that they have to attack you first and your fighting defensive.YOU CAN ONLY MAKE ONE AOO PER ROUND unless you have combat reflexes. Melee defensive does not count as Fighting Defensive.

Jonny the Bold Italicized is a reversal of what you told me in PM. This is one of the biggest issues you have as a GM saying one thing one time, and then changing it later. This change, intentional or unintentional, is very aggravating because I asked you about this weeks ago when I was planing out the character, and now that I have take the talent (4 levels, and six weeks later) you are changing the rules so that the talent becomes worthless to me.

Why would a character that has Melee Defense ever use Fighting Defensavely when they are going to attack? Taking a -5 atk to get a +2 def when you can take a -2 atk for a +2 defense makes no sense. And why do you no longer consider Melee Defense a form of Fighting Defensavely? If you want to have the argument again we can, but I am about done with the back and forth stang. Also, if you are no longer the GM why are you changing the rules?

I dont know where you got that MD counted as FD.
I am sorry if you misunderstand how that worked. If you look back on the pms and page six you will see that i said it would not work. I am sorry how all of this has came out. All I want is for you to understand my reason and fun playing your character.

Here is the forum that helped me figure out the difference of the two.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... stion?pg=1

This is what i said in pms and there is more on page six of this thread. I dont know where I said MD counts as FD.

Spoiler: show

Page six

Spoiler: show

Bill we made a house rule so you could attack and fight defensively as a standard action. It was an oversight by WOTC in my eyes thats why we made the change.

Here is what is in the house rule thread about fighting defensively
*Fight defensively:
you can use a standard action to fight defensively
if you make an attack thats not an area attack, you can take a -5 on your attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to your Reflex Defense till the start of your next turn and if you dont make any attacks even aoos its a +5 ref bonus

Here is what Melee defensive is in the books
When you use a standard action to make a melee attack,you can take a penalty of up to -5 on your attack roll and add the same number(up to +5) as a dodge bonus to your reflex defense.This number may not exceeed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Reflex Defense last until the start of your next turn.

I tried to word Fight defensively like Melee defensive. The reason Melee defensive does not work as Fight defensively is because you can pick what you want. This means you can get a -1 Def for a +1 and you could fight defensively.
Second reason is that the two are different abilities thats why I said they would not count and they both have to use a standard action. The only rule change I made was that you could attack and fight defensively in the same turn.

Fight defensively you dont have to attack to get the bonus and if you dont attack you can get a -5/+5. With Melee Defensive you can attack and still get the -5/+5. Melee defensive counting as Fight defensively is better in all most every way if it would work.

I am not changing the rules I am trying to get everyone on the same page so Gunnar does not get lost. He knows the basic Core rule book rules. He does not know what all the talents/feats do and I dont think he needs to know them. He will just take your word on it if it makes sense to him.

Here is what Pukunui said about Walters question on the boards
Question
For the purpose of talents like counterpunch, does using the Melee Defense feat count as fighting defensively?

answer
No. Melee Defense, while similar, is not the same thing as Fighting Defensively. In fact, since they both grant dodge bonuses, and dodge bonuses stack, then if you were to get a second standard action somehow, then you'd be able to use both together. The thing is, Melee Defense gives you a "free" benefit when you spend your standard action to make an attack, whereas Fighting Defensively is a standard action in its own right and, by RAW, you don't get an attack with it (when the text refers to making attacks while fighting defensively, it's referring to attacks of opportunity and the like). So it's an important distinction to make. If you want to benefit from something like Counterpunch or a riot shield, you have to take the actual Fighting Defensively action. You can't just use Melee Defense.

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