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 Post subject: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:18 pm 
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54 Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
26 Kyp Durron
23 General Wedge Antilles
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
10 Luke Skywalker, Force Spirit
16 R7 Astromech Droid x2
3 Mouse Droid

(150pts. 8 activations)

just a fun squad kind of low activation though

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Well I ran Kyle at 150 in the regionals last year and got 2nd place at both Atlanta and Owensboro, and it was almost that same squad.

54 Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
26 Kyp Durron
23 General Wedge Antilles
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
10 Luke Skywalker, Force Spirit
9 General Dodonna
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(149pts. 9 activations)

You're right, the activations are a little low. Dodonna helps with that significantly, though. Lots of damage output here, including direct damage from both Kyp and Kyle. You have to be very careful with the one Mouse and two Ugnaughts, though.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:30 pm 
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In my opinion this is better.

Kyle 54
Mara 45
Dodonna 9
Luke FS 10
Gen Wedge 23
3x ugs 9

150 pts 8 activations

Kyle Loses Greater Mobile, but you gain the added benefit of Mara Jade, Jedi, who can provide some ranged support <Usually more than the Twilek.> and the ability to do 120 damage in a good round. I'm just not impressed with Kyp either. I don't feel like you get enough mileage out of him. He costs 26 points, and I don't feel like he does enough.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:38 am 
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Sort of depends on the Meta I guess. Mara is better against the Snowspeeder, while Kyp is better against GOWK. With the Kyle/Mara build, you likely get 160 damage per round (Assault from both Kyle and Mara), and with the Kyle/Kyp/TBSV build, you likely get 150 damage per round (GMA/Triple from Kyle, Assault/Twin from Kyp (assuming one miss), and 30 from TBSV).

So, really they are about the same thing overall, IMO. The big difference is that Mara will still have a tough time taking down GOWK, IMO, especially if he's backed up by Ferus.

Granted, it's probably a personal preference sort of thing though.

As for the OP's squad...I would definitely drop one or both of the R7's though. Wedge's CE gives the Ugnaughts Mobile Attack, which they can use along with Satchel Charge. So, as long as you're careful with them, shouldn't be too hard to make sure your doors get blown without losing the Ugo(s).

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:58 pm 
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you would assume 3/4 hits from + 10 attack, jeez I just dont see it with GOWK back on the scene, everyones Def is so High. Maybe if within 6 of Kyle you can get that from Kyp. I just dont see it.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:31 am 
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Well, I assumed all 4 of Mara's attacks would hit, which is probably wishful thinking as well. So, knock it down to 3/4 for Mara, and 2/4 for Kyp. Still ends up a similar ratio.

Echo's squad did surprisingly well last year throughout the regionals, and that was before GOWK was susceptible to Melee. My game against him in Owensboro was probably my toughest game that entire day.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:54 am 
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2/4 from Kyp is average, 3/4 from Kyp if you use him to beat up on non-uniques (which, if possible, is his best role). You don't really have to worry about things like GOWK or GGDAC's CE making stuff harder for Kyp to hit, because you should be running him and Kyle pretty close to each other, so they'll be disrupted. A big reason for his addition last year was for Lightning against GOWK, which isn't an issue anymore, so I could see the argument for replacing Kyp.

In fact, that exact Mara/Kyle squad is another one I've played around with. It's very solid, and very straightforward: just run in and kill stuff. It has at least as much damage output as anything else in 150, and is also incredibly resilient. I don't think it's necessarily superior to the Kyp/Kyle build, but it's very comparable. All you're doing is downgrading Kyle by losing GMA, and upgrading Kyp to Mara. You also lose an activation (in a squad that's already low on activations). I think which is better is in large part just a personal preference thing.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:19 pm 
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I've always found that Wedge + two beats in 150 NR doesn't work at the top levels. It's just too many points tied up. At 200 its fine, but at 150, you don't have the damage output needed, and evade isn't that hard to deal with.

The only way these win against the top 150s is by slow playing, and keeping your beats alive until the end. I've never been a fan of Wedge at 150 for that reason. I just don't think he's cost effective enough, to also fit in the good NR beats.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:01 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
I've always found that Wedge + two beats in 150 NR doesn't work at the top levels. It's just too many points tied up. At 200 its fine, but at 150, you don't have the damage output needed, and evade isn't that hard to deal with.

The only way these win against the top 150s is by slow playing, and keeping your beats alive until the end. I've never been a fan of Wedge at 150 for that reason. I just don't think he's cost effective enough, to also fit in the good NR beats.


And How could he be when Reikan costs 9 points less and has a better ability?

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:07 pm 
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
I've always found that Wedge + two beats in 150 NR doesn't work at the top levels. It's just too many points tied up. At 200 its fine, but at 150, you don't have the damage output needed, and evade isn't that hard to deal with.

The only way these win against the top 150s is by slow playing, and keeping your beats alive until the end. I've never been a fan of Wedge at 150 for that reason. I just don't think he's cost effective enough, to also fit in the good NR beats.


And How could he be when Reikan costs 9 points less and has a better ability?


It has nothing to do with Reeikan actually. It has everything to do with what you can fit together in a squad in the NR.

At 200, I much prefer Wedge to Reeikan in a direct comparison actually. The 9 points, for accurate, higher hps, and avoid defeat is totally worth it. At 150, you just can't fit it all together well enough to make it top tier.

Further, if you hunted for it, you could find multiple times before Reeikan was released that I argued against Wedge being used in 150 as a top tier squad. I've been pretty consistent on that since release. Wedge and two beats just isn't enough. The best bets are Kyle and Kyp generally, but it has to be played very carefully and with almost no mistakes. It's close enough for many tournaments, but wouldn't have won Gencon, even in the best of players hands. Now, going forward that could easily change, but I can only speak to the current meta, and those of the past.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:16 pm 
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I always like to run this at 150 for NR:

54 Kyle JBM
28 Dash Rendar RS
26 Kyp Durron
10 Luke Force Spirit
10 Jagged Fel
9 Gen. Dodanna
4 Gran Raider
6 Mouse Droid x2
3 Uggie Demo

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Last edited by UggieDemo on Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:39 pm 
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I think you're much better off going with a YV Ossus Guardian or Kyp instead of Leia, personally. At 150 points, she won't do much offensively, and her CE really only helps Kyle's rare Block rolls (I use Block infrequently, and most of Kyle's FPs go to Assault or Lightning) or Dash's Evade. And if you play Dash correctly, you should be using GMA most of the time anyways so he doesn't get shot at all.

Better to squeeze more power into your 150 point squads. Leave Leia for the 200 and higher variants.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:59 am 
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LoboStele wrote:
I think you're much better off going with a YV Ossus Guardian or Kyp instead of Leia, personally. At 150 points, she won't do much offensively, and her CE really only helps Kyle's rare Block rolls (I use Block infrequently, and most of Kyle's FPs go to Assault or Lightning) or Dash's Evade. And if you play Dash correctly, you should be using GMA most of the time anyways so he doesn't get shot at all.

Better to squeeze more power into your 150 point squads. Leave Leia for the 200 and higher variants.


I agree espetially cause kyle doesnt even have block. Your just rerolling dash's saves

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:26 am 
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Yeah I have seen Leia used best at 200pt with General Wedge. I don't see much point in having her without him.


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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:23 am 
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Weeks wrote:
LoboStele wrote:
I think you're much better off going with a YV Ossus Guardian or Kyp instead of Leia, personally. At 150 points, she won't do much offensively, and her CE really only helps Kyle's rare Block rolls (I use Block infrequently, and most of Kyle's FPs go to Assault or Lightning) or Dash's Evade. And if you play Dash correctly, you should be using GMA most of the time anyways so he doesn't get shot at all.

Better to squeeze more power into your 150 point squads. Leave Leia for the 200 and higher variants.


I agree espetially cause kyle doesnt even have block. Your just rerolling dash's saves


DOH! Right! I honestly don't play Kyle JBM all that much, even when I do play NR. So yeah, Leia is a total waste in this squad then. Save her for 200 points, or if you're running Kyle Combat Instructor or Kol.

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 Post subject: Re: how to run kyle in 150
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:26 pm 
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edited ;)

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