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 Post subject: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:11 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Han Solo, Scoundrel 46
Chewbaca Rebel Hero 30
Princess Leia 20
Rebel Trooper on a Tauntaun x2 26
Obi-Wan Force Spirit 8
R2-D2 8
Ugnaught Demo x4 12

150 points 11 activations
Well I think everyone knows what this squad is trying to accompolish, han twins for 30 apiece then leia lets him twin again for 40 then 30. Well the Rauntauns offer not only recon but spotter plus 20 for a more powerful cannon, plus if one goes down i still have a 2nd to keep recon going. Now Han can evade, reroll it +4 with mettle, and if that still misses chewie can take the damage. I have had good success with this squad locally, but don't know whether it would be good outside the area


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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:07 pm 
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Vegeta906 wrote:
. Now Han can evade, reroll it +4 with mettle, and if that still misses chewie can take the damage. I have had good success with this squad locally, but don't know whether it would be good outside the area



I don't think that it works that way, I think you have to decide whether or not to Bodygaurd before you attempt evades.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
Vegeta906 wrote:
. Now Han can evade, reroll it +4 with mettle, and if that still misses chewie can take the damage. I have had good success with this squad locally, but don't know whether it would be good outside the area



I don't think that it works that way, I think you have to decide whether or not to Bodygaurd before you attempt evades.


I am pretty sure it does, I asked on the WotC rules board and NickName said you could try and evade and then if you miss give the damage to a bodyguard


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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:25 pm 
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Well if nickname ruled on it that way then his authority is higher than mine, but that does surprise me because I know that shields don't work before bodygaurd, and I didn't think that Evade or Lightsaber Deflect/Block did either. Perhaps I was mistaken.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:38 pm 
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Its because of the timing of evade/deflect/block/illusion is different than shields and body gaurd.

Evade, etc. occur "when hit". Which is before you actually apply damage. Shields and BG apply "when taking damage". You are hit first, then can respond with evasion abilities, then apply any remaining damage, which can be then affected by shields or a Body Gaurd. The reason you cannot do shields and BG together is that they both require taking damage.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:41 pm 
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Ok thanks for setting me straight on that one. Squad looks better than I originally thought.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:06 pm 
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Looks good, definitely one of the better Han Cannon squads I've seen recently. It has the survivability, the initative control, the door control, the mobility, the damage output, it's got everything.

I only wish I had 2 RaunTauns... :)

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:23 pm 
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adder wrote:
Looks good, definitely one of the better Han Cannon squads I've seen recently. It has the survivability, the initative control, the door control, the mobility, the damage output, it's got everything.

I only wish I had 2 RaunTauns... :)


Yes I must say Rauntaun is my favorite non-unique rare, but to be fair I haven't played with storm commandos very often since I only have one


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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Not to go off topic, but because of certain support pieces I would say that the storm commando is probably a little better, but it certainly is designed to play a different role in a squad. So it is like comparing Apples and kumquats.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:29 am 
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This version does look like it is a pretty powerful version of the Han Cannon squad. I like the addition of the rauntauns to give extra damage and some init control a lot. I happen to have two of them so I might have to give this a shot sometime. great build here. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:25 am 
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My concern is in highly competitive environments. San/Ozzel/Dodonna

You will have to activate your entire squad before they move their first "good" piece.

How will this squad play on the bad side of mustifar or the Arena. I played in a 150 event in Chicago last weekend. I learned (re-learned) that those maps are not fun to play on and I need to practice on them or always be at a disadvantage. Melee is more fun, but range is still king (at least at 150).


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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:26 pm 
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@Engineer:

10 San Hill
62 Boba Fett, BH
41 Aurra Sing, JH
27 Lobot
9 Ugo Demo x3

That is apparently the San squad that did well at Gencon last year. I just C+P'ed it out of the San Hill discussion for this one.

The most fodder pieces this squad could have is around 9, which the OP squad could take down in 2-3 rounds, leaving them with only the 4 main figs in the squad.
Of course, this is all going on while Boba and Aurra are firing on whoever they want.
Im not saying that the OP squad would decimate this one, but I think its closer than some might think. COuld possibly come down to evade saves(which Han can reroll with Mettle) and how good the Han Cannon player is at keeping Aurra from doing a decimating BB.

Personally, Id be afraid of Super stealth.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:23 pm 
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Dis1 wrote:
@Engineer:

10 San Hill
62 Boba Fett, BH
41 Aurra Sing, JH
27 Lobot
9 Ugo Demo x3

That is apparently the San squad that did well at Gencon last year. I just C+P'ed it out of the San Hill discussion for this one.

The most fodder pieces this squad could have is around 9, which the OP squad could take down in 2-3 rounds, leaving them with only the 4 main figs in the squad.
Of course, this is all going on while Boba and Aurra are firing on whoever they want.
Im not saying that the OP squad would decimate this one, but I think its closer than some might think. COuld possibly come down to evade saves(which Han can reroll with Mettle) and how good the Han Cannon player is at keeping Aurra from doing a decimating BB.

Personally, Id be afraid of Super stealth.


What about Vong Jedi Hunters. This entire squad could only deal 30 damage (if the Vong make all 3 saves). That would be a rather rough game.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:24 pm 
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Engineer wrote:

What about Vong Jedi Hunters. This entire squad could only deal 30 damage (if the Vong make all 3 saves). That would be a rather rough game.


How do you figure only 30 damage from the entire squad? Han has accurate and neither side has serious initiative control. Han Twins on an unactivated one (accurate shot) 40, Leia makes him shoot again, 50 that accounts for all saves being made. 90 damage from 2 activations. That is one dead VJH. Not to mention that Chewbacca takes a beating and a half. I don't think that this squad is the most competitive one of it's kind in todays game, but it is no slouch either.

I think you greatly overestimate their (vong's) chances!

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:41 pm 
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also the vong defense isn't very high, Leia and Chewie might be able to hit for 10 each as well, assuming the Crab saves are made. Han can take out a Shaper pretty quickly too with accurate which helps, I think the new vong still will have issues with non melee squads, and accurate really hurts since shapers have to come pretty close to the action. I still think Han being damaged by Jedi Hunter is dumb but I guess being able to use Obi Wan FS on him is equally as dumb. Maybe thats why none of the Hans since have had force points


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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:25 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
Its because of the timing of evade/deflect/block/illusion is different than shields and body gaurd.

Evade, etc. occur "when hit". Which is before you actually apply damage. Shields and BG apply "when taking damage". You are hit first, then can respond with evasion abilities, then apply any remaining damage, which can be then affected by shields or a Body Gaurd. The reason you cannot do shields and BG together is that they both require taking damage.


Woah...was this something that was just recently changed with the new FAQ? I'll have to go back and review them, but I could've sworn you had to determine Bodyguard before Evade. But it makes sense the way Bill explained it. Weird...can't believe I've missed that one. I think I ruled it incorrectly just a week or two ago at our LGS, lol.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:18 am 
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LoboStele wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
Its because of the timing of evade/deflect/block/illusion is different than shields and body gaurd.

Evade, etc. occur "when hit". Which is before you actually apply damage. Shields and BG apply "when taking damage". You are hit first, then can respond with evasion abilities, then apply any remaining damage, which can be then affected by shields or a Body Gaurd. The reason you cannot do shields and BG together is that they both require taking damage.


Woah...was this something that was just recently changed with the new FAQ? I'll have to go back and review them, but I could've sworn you had to determine Bodyguard before Evade. But it makes sense the way Bill explained it. Weird...can't believe I've missed that one. I think I ruled it incorrectly just a week or two ago at our LGS, lol.


Its been this way since some time after Universe when they last changed it to disallow shields or DR to work with Bg. Before that you could run two Acklays and Padme between them and DR away 20 damage from every shot taken on one before you took anything. Back in the days of 20 dmg, you have squads that required crits to even hit one of those beasts.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:03 pm 
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Yeah, I remember that distinction, but I thought that change made it where you had to determine Bodyguard choices before anything else. Must've just not paid close enough attention to the differences in the specific situations.

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 Post subject: Re: 150 point Han Scoundrel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:51 am 
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It still doesn't make logical sense to me (if it were attempting to imitate real situations, which it isn't) I still think the Body guard should be able to use lightsaber deflect. however not evade. but that has little to do with game mechanics.

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